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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:47 pm 
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Dreww wrote:
I don't think I'll ever understand the appeal of "What's Opera Doc"; it's totally boring. There are literally hundreds of cartoons I would rather watch. None of the jokes are funny. The layouts look good but there are many others I prefer. I can't imagine why everyone likes it so much. I think it has something to do with animation lovers feeling intimidated by the pompousness of the so-called high arts and so loving it when animation attempts to cut them down by putting them on the same level; I'd rather just demand that animation is inherently just as good rather than worrying about the high/low art divide in the first place. And even then, what's not to prefer about "Rabbit of Seville" when it comes to the clash between the supposed high/low divide? I just think that there are tons of better toons Jones did than this: "Rabbit Seasoning", "Duck Amuck", "Drip Along Daffy", "Scaredy Cat", "Deduce You Say", "Baton Bunny", and these are just from me looking at the list of Jones toons in the first volume in the Golden Collection--I'm sure there are many more I prefer. I just don't see what's so good about it and never will. In any case, I'll take "Slap-Happy Lion" not just over "What's Opera Doc", but over the collected works of Wagner himself. Vive la animacion!


Yeah I don't think it's Jones' best. But I still think it's a masterpiece of animation. It's not close to being one of Chuck's funniest but I think it's one of his most visually accomplished works for sure. I'd figure it into his top 10 somewhere.

It parodies Wagner but in such a non malicious way that it's just as successful as an homage as it is a parody. I think that's what people love about it. The cartoon simultaneously parodies and mimics the bombast of Opera so well. I can't think of another WB short quite like it. There's only a few actual gags to speak of, it's the way Elmer and Bugs go about playing their roles that makes it so entertaining.

And I do find the way the short takes an unexpected turn for the dramatic which is a gag in itself to be very funny and clever. But overall it's a short that emphasizes the imagery, story and expressiveness of the characters over gags. So it's a little similar to the Disney shorts in that way.

My favorite Chuck short? Probably Duck Dodgers.


Last edited by boo boo on Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:51 pm 
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boobs just showed me this on AIM and I think I'll call it my favorite Jones short so far:


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:50 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:59 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:26 am 
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I watched some Tom & Jerry cartoons with grandma yesterday, they spanned various eras. The Hanna-Barbera ones are truly the best.

But I even enjoy the Chuck Jones shorts (which are not terribly popular with cartoon buffs) though they're definitely nowhere near his best work, I just love his animation style, even on a noticeably lower budget.

The Gene Deitch shorts on the other hand are just..... wtf.

So here's what happens. MGM fires Hanna and Barbera and closes down their animation studio for good, but they retain the rights to Tom & Jerry, so what do they do?

They form a contract with a Czech Republic based UPA animator (most famous for the Tom Terrific shorts from Captain Kangaroo) who HATES the Tom & Jerry series, works on a budget of $10,000 and has a staff of inexperienced animators with little to no knowledge of the Tom & Jerry series. Resulting in shorts like this.



:freak:



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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:16 pm 
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:lol: !


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:41 am 
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Yeah, the Tom & Jerry shorts have always been very violent (along with the Tex Avery cartoons this was basically MGM's trademark during the golden age) but that one is particularly disturbing, because there's no real humor in it and because most of Tom's abuse is coming from his owner.

I think people treat the Chuck Jones Tom & Jerry shorts very unfairly, because this was what came before his stuff. Chuck's was a MASSIVE improvement, they may be mediocre by Chuck standards but overall they still display his incredible talent for timing and expressions.

But while Gene Deitch wasn't cut out for Tom & Jerry, he wasn't talentless either, he actually has some pretty cool stuff that's worth checking out if you like limited but stylish animation.

Anyway, here's something interesting, these are two shorts that were made in 1946. A Tom & Jerry short and a Bugs Bunny short from Friz Freleng.

Cat Concerto

Rhapsody Rabbit

Til this day nobody knows for sure who ripped off who, both MGM and WB accused each other of plagiarism.

They're both fucking awesome though.

The Tom & Jerry one is better as a technical accomplishment, with incredibly fluid and detailed animation, though I prefer the Bugs one as it has better timing and gags. However they both astound me with how well they synchronize the music with the animation.

It's interesting to see the same idea executed in two different ways and be equally effective in both styles.

Golden age animation is where it's at.


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:59 am 
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So anyone catch the premiere of The Looney Toons show? I have to admit it's better than I thought it would be, nothing great but it's actually pretty funny, and an interesting twist on the characters.

The reimagining of the characters will definitely prove controversial with diehard Looney Tunes fans. They've made Daffy REALLY stupid, way more so than even Jones and McGimson's interpretations. And Bugs has been turned into a cynical and irritable straight man.

Also reinventing Lola Bunny as an obnoxious, dense valley girl was a good call. :lol:

Still not sure why Witch Hazel is black now though. :confused:


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:51 am 
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John Kricfalusi is a bitter hack who hasn't done anything even remotely watchable in 10 years and should shove his ludicrous anti-Chuck Jones (or any cartoons not written by a sugar high 8 year old) bias up his ass. And Bob Clampett isn't that fucking great.

How long will it take for him to realise that the reason no big network wants to work with him (besides him being such a massive douche and having no understanding of the concept of time schedules) is that the last two projects of his (Ripping Friends and Adult Swim Ren & Stimpy) that were greenlighted absolutely sucked balls. He's a one trick pony and his tricks stopped working long ago.

You want to know why he will lambast any cartoon no matter how incredibly well written, well timed and well paced it is just because the emphasis isn't purely on animation? Because he wants to excuse the fact that he can't actually write. He has no appreciation for or even an understanding of subtlety. Which makes Chuck Jones a frequent target because god forbid he isn't as wacky as Bob or Tex, and even influenced *gasp* limited/stylized animation.

And his fanboys are such idiots, often consisting of equally fustrated animators who are unknown for a reason. When I see someone post on this guy's blog and trashing Richard Williams (a top contender for most talented animator who ever lived) because he's "style over subtance", the blog of the guy who made the fucking Ripping Friends, which was a totally one unfunny joke of a cartoon, I just want to rip his retinas out with a spork.

I also hate how whenever another animator is influenced by HIM (see: Genndy Tartakovsky) he takes it as a goddamn offense, because he's so convinced that nobody should even dare attempt to emulate his greatness. The nerve of the guy is truly amazing.

Oh and why was this clown actually allowed to do commentary on a Chuck Jones short (with predictable results) from the Looney Toons Golden Collection volume 3 DVD? Did Warner Bros just not give a shit? I have absolutely no respect for this guy anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:15 am 
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He's not anti-Chuck Jones though. He just likes Clampett more.


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:41 am 
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Even when he tries to say something nice about Jones it's usually backhanded compliments.

John K's taste is so absurdly limited, when he compliments other animators it's usually for what they have in common with Clampett, and everything else gets criticized. The way he makes Clampett the god for which all animators should be measured is just goddamn irritating.

I've seen a lot of Clampett's work and as great as he is, he's definitely not superior to Jones. His animation was more fluid and wacky. But Jones was just more well rounded. His animation was great, but he worked with much better writers than Clampett, Clampett's cartoons were more heavily based on 1940s pop culture references which were used over and over and I think that has caused them to age less as well. Much of Jones humor doesn't get lost on future generations.

Jones was way more diverse. I think he was more well versed with all the different kinds of humor. Clampett made one kind of short that he did better than anyone else and stuck to nothing but it throughout pretty much his whole career at Warner Bros.

But a lot of Chuck's best work had more to it than just being funny. They could be heartwarming, epic, creepy, even beautiful. He did stuff that was lush and elaborate, and stuff that was abstract. He could parody any genre and do it amazingly well. He could do shorts based heavily on slapstick and sight gags and he could do shorts based heavily on dialogue, expression and personality, and equally well. And most importantly he could blend it all together into a cohesive whole.

I just don't see how Clampett can compare to Jones. I prefer Avery to Clampett as well, at least the 1940s MGM era.

Anyway, my opinions on the other big WB animators.

-Friz Freleng was not as consistant as Jones and weared his formulas thin at times but he had several great shorts to his credit and deserves more respect than he gets.
-Robert McKimson too, being the dark horse of the big 5 he never reached as great of heights as the others, and by the 50s he was stuck with the animators Jones and Freleng didn't want, but he definitely had some terrific stuff that's too often overlooked.
-Frank Tashlin is way underrated and his career at WB was too short lived.


Last edited by boo boo on Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:30 pm 
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No love for Ub? :sad:


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:36 pm 
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boo boo wrote:
Even when he tries to say something about Jones it's usually backhanded compliments.

I don't think so. It's true that usually when he says something good about Jones he allows for a caveat that it's not as good as Clampett but this doesn't really make him anti-Jones

As for the rest of your post, most of this we've been through before so I don't see why we should go into it again. Yes, K's tastes are limited. Yes, he deifies Clampett too much. What I like about John K though is that he does have insight into aspects of animation that I wouldn't have appreciated otherwise, and for that I don't care how many ridiculous opinions he has. I don't look for people who write about art to find someone who agrees with me the most or has the most reasonable overall view. I look for specific insights, and John K has a lot of those.

As for myself, I don't really disagree with your explanation of the differences between Jones and Clampett. Jones was more well-rounded and Clampett was too reliant on pop cultural references. All I know is that in spite of this, I get more mileage out of the best Clampett toons than the best Jones toons.


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:13 am 
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Sherick wrote:
No love for Ub? :sad:


He was a major WB director? Ub has only made two shorts with WB and it's not among his best work.

But yeah I like Iwerks a lot. Rubberhose era <3


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 Post subject: Re: The Art of Animation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:49 am 
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Dreww wrote:
boo boo wrote:
Even when he tries to say something about Jones it's usually backhanded compliments.

I don't think so. It's true that usually when he says something good about Jones he allows for a caveat that it's not as good as Clampett but this doesn't really make him anti-Jones

As for the rest of your post, most of this we've been through before so I don't see why we should go into it again. Yes, K's tastes are limited. Yes, he deifies Clampett too much. What I like about John K though is that he does have insight into aspects of animation that I wouldn't have appreciated otherwise, and for that I don't care how many ridiculous opinions he has. I don't look for people who write about art to find someone who agrees with me the most or has the most reasonable overall view. I look for specific insights, and John K has a lot of those.

As for myself, I don't really disagree with your explanation of the differences between Jones and Clampett. Jones was more well-rounded and Clampett was too reliant on pop cultural references. All I know is that in spite of this, I get more mileage out of the best Clampett toons than the best Jones toons.


Anyone can be insightful. I don't think it justifies the total lack of respect he has for ANY of his peers.

He's just a goddamn douche. No way around it.

Hell his idol Bob Clampett was a douche too. He was a shameless self promotor, constantly taking credit for everything, downplaying the contributions of everyone else. Like claiming to be the sole creator of Bugs Bunny even though that was truly a combined effort (Ben Hardaway and Jones created the prototype, Tex made the first true Bugs short, Mel came up with the accent, McKimson made the classic design).

Chuck grew to hate the guy with a fucking passion.


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