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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:03 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
What is it that you really understand? If songwriting is a small point then this criteria is flawed. The song is the most important aspect of music without it there is nothing to sing or play.


No-one's arguing that the song isn't the most important part. It's you arguing that writing songs is the most important.

Musicfan67 wrote:
If you are going say Elvis played on some of his song and that makes him comparable musicians than McCartney or Harrison then you're clueless. The last time I checked playing an instrument is performance.


I never claimed Elvis to be particularly impressive as a musician, nor did I compare him to McCartney or Harrison. Once again, you read the things people write and twist them so it looks like an attack on the Beatles, then you make up your own strawman arguments.

Musicfan67 wrote:
What three songs out over 200 the Beatles didn't play on a record because they wanted the arrangement of just vocal/strings "She's Leaving Home"/ "Eleanor Rigby" and the "Inner Light" vocals and complete Indian backing which honestly is going way outside the normal pop conventions.


Even if there were only 3 songs, according to your logic, they should be penalised for that. You have no trouble pointing out stuff that other artists did or didn't do, but when it comes to the Beatles doing/not doing the exact same thing, you try and act as if they don't deserve to be penalised.

Musicfan67 wrote:
As for Time Magazine they choose 20 musicians and the one they choose for rock was the Beatles. So what and what is new about that. If you disagree with the choice that's fine.


A 'most influential artists/people' list with Bob Dylan and Aretha Franklin but no Elvis Presley is laughable.

Musicfan67 wrote:
The list of the top 20 Artists and Entertainers, in particular, was criticized for not including Elvis Presley, a decision Handy initially defended in the following way:

"One of the most important, innovative things about rock is the whole notion of songwriters singing their own works, of the immediacy of expression. Since Elvis didn't write his own material, unlike The Beatles or Bob Dylan or Robert Johnson, who's also someone who could have been included, maybe that cut against him … I think the Beatles pushed the envelope a lot further. Elvis' most original recordings were his first. The Beatles started out as imitators, and then continued to grow throughout their years together".


What a load of shit. So the only thing he didn't include Elvis for was not writing his own material? Sounds a lot like you.


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:07 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
By the way this was Bob Dylan and Elvis Presley and again you had to bring the Beatles in this debate.


You would have brought the Beatles into it anyway. And besides, Beatles vs. Elvis is much more interesting than Elvis vs. Dylan, because Elvis beats Dylan by a landslide.

Musicfan67 wrote:
Do have any opinions on Bob Dylan?


Of course I do. I love Bob Dylan. Blood On The Tracks is one of my favourite albums, and Shelter from the Storm is one of my favourite songs, along with Desolation Row, Idiot Wind and Hurricane.


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
I have Elvis over every Motown act on my list so what's the point? I don't dislike Elvis but I have James Brown 3rd and Hendrix 5th does that make me wrong?


1.) James Brown and Jimi Hendrix were not Motown acts.
2.) The point is that you criticize Elvis for not writing or playing on his own material and want to lower him for that, yet probably all Motown acts didn't play or write any of their songs, but you don't play attention to them. Why are you not campaigning to get them lowered?


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
Polls with various musicians and musical background counts more than the subjective opinion of this forum.


No, it doesn't. Because they aren't following a set of criteria. Some musician can vote for Leonard Cohen over Chuck Berry. And I'm sure some do. And what do you mean "subjective opinion of this forum"? The whole point of following a set of criteria is to produce as close to an objective list as possible.

Musicfan67 wrote:
I mean Time Magazine had the Beatles as its most influential rock musicians was that subjective or objective?


It's the opinion of the editors of Time Magazine.

Musicfan67 wrote:
Every musician covers music so I don't get your point. The Beatles went on to become the most covered songwriters/musicians of the rock era. The Beatles became the first British rock artists to dominate the pop charts in America and I think the first British act to do so in the America Charts.


Elvis Presley is the first artist to top the Pop, Country and R&B charts at the same time.

Musicfan67 wrote:
Singing is singing, writing your own music is another, also playing or performing a musical instrument is another and doing all three is what the Beatles did.


Foghat wrote their own music. They also sang. And they performed on their own musical instruments. Are they greater than Elvis Presley?

Musicfan67 wrote:
Elvis didn't what else can I say. It's that simple.


If it's that simple, then Foghat is a greater rock artist than Elvis Presley.

Musicfan67 wrote:
Having a great singer is a dime a dozen


A singer like Elvis sure as fucking hell ain't a dime a dozen.

Musicfan67 wrote:
I don't think it's a fair comparison when it comes to the Beatles or Elvis. One is a solo artist the other a band of musicians/songwriter


What, you want to break up the list between bands and solo artists, now?


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:36 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
Machine Head wrote:
Many Motown acts had their songs written for them, and had a house band play on their records. Why aren't you trying to lower them? Is it because Elvis is too close to your precious Beatles for comfort?


I think you hit the nail on the head.


I have Elvis over every Motown act on my list so what's the point?


Not that, that's for sure. The point is that you're only gunning for Elvis Presley. Why aren't you clamoring for every other artist on the list who didn't write their own material to be lowered? In fact, why don't you ask to have them all knocked off the list entirely, since you think all great artists have to be songwriters?

Musicfan67 wrote:
I don't dislike Elvis


Yeah, you just think he's a dime a dozen. :evil:

Musicfan67 wrote:
but I have James Brown 3rd and Hendrix 5th does that make me wrong?


The criteria makes you wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:56 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
If songwriting is a small point then this criteria is flawed.


You're flawed.

Musicfan67 wrote:
The song is the most important aspect of music without it there is nothing to sing or play.


Without someone to perform it, a song is nothing.

Musicfan67 wrote:
If you are going say Elvis played on some of his songs and that makes him comparable musicians to McCartney or Harrison then you're clueless.


Eat cock.

Musicfan67 wrote:
The last time I checked playing an instrument is performance.


You need to swallow a bucket of dicks if you think the Beatles are even in the same universe as Elvis Presley when it comes to performing.

Musicfan67 wrote:
Of course this doesn't even include how they impacted the art of the rock album or the experiments of their use of the studio that they help either influence or instigate that you hear in today's music.


More than any other artist, Elvis Presley is responsible for rock becoming the dominant form of popular music. Nothing the Beatles did compares to that.


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:13 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Eat cock.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:40 am 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
Having a great singer is a dime a dozen


i think the second you try to pass off Elvis as "a dime a dozen", you shouldn't be taken seriously from that point on. imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:45 am 
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this list is about who is most important in rock music. who had the biggest impact, culturally, musically, commercially, etc.

anything other than Beatles > Elvis > everyone else, is just insane.


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:55 am 
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Yeah, but Elvis > Beatles > Everyone else, also isn't insane.


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:17 am 
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Machine Head wrote:
Django Reinhardt, Les Paul and Charlie Christian revolutionary artists?


What the hell is your problem with this?


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Gibson's lists suck major balls. Who the hell would have Nirvana as a more revolutionary artist than Led Zeppelin.


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 Post subject: Re: Gibson.com’s Top 50 Most Revolutionary Artists
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Sequester Grundelplith M.D. wrote:
2.) The point is that you criticize Elvis for not writing or playing on his own material and want to lower him for that, yet probably all Motown acts didn't play or write any of their songs, but you don't play attention to them. Why are you not campaigning to get them lowered?


Smokey Robinson doesn't write his own songs? Marvin Gaye didn't start out as a drummer?


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