Re: Fade To Black vs. One, I could go either way. Love them both to pieces.

I think both of them are greater than Painkiller though.

I'm on the Painkiller side of the fence, though that may be because I was introduced to Painkiller before I was a metalhead and aren't looking at things quite as rationally.
That being said, a 'top 20 metal songs' list would be very heavily contested with at least 40 reasonable candidates.

Speaking of Priest (as I often do), when did Realms drop to #13?! That song has a shitload of influence and originality...

stained class is one of the most influential albums of the early heave metal phase. BtRoD was the most epic and complex song of the album, is therefore considered as a classic piece of Heavy Metal.

e:/I think this list reached a almost perfect point, maybe we should extend it to another 100 songs (making 200 in total), there are a lot of important songs, that aren't in it yet.

Went through DDD's 300 Greatest Rock Songs list, kind of funny to see how the metal songs place

1. Master of Puppets
2. Jesus Christ Pose
3. Hallowed Be Thy Name
4. Paranoid
5. One
6. Iron Man
7. Aenema
8. You Got Another Thing Comin
9. Rooster
10. Rock You Like a Hurricane
11. Nothing Else Matters

I think it's pretty clear that, all things considered, Black Sabbath is the greatest metal song of all time.
And no, dont throw that "just because it came first" bullshit at me, 'cause there's more to it than that.
It's influence and impact are out of this galaxy. Think about the things that this song made possible. Every time you hear a metal artist say that they want to SCARE their audience, the influence of that goes directly back to Black Sabbath. And the evil/supernatural themes that also became so popular in metal throughout the 80's and beyond, clearly owe everything to this song as well. Horror/occult/Biblical overtones...this is the blueprint that made it all possible.

And it's impact is indescribable. Even Iommi himself talked about the enormous effect of the song in the early days:
"The critics hated us. Absolutely hated us. And they wouldn't play us on the radio. Mainly because of the song 'Black Sabbath'. And my God...the looks on people's faces when we played that song, they were just horrified".

And it doesn't do THAT bad in popularity, being a huge crowd favorite that the band always played for a number of years.

Honestly, I love Hallowed as much as anyone else, but it's influence and impact are nowhere near the level of Black Sabbath.
And "musical and lyrical quality" is way too subjective...

So, I think the ideal top 5 would be this:

1. Black Sabbath
2. Hallowed Be Thy Name
3. Master Of Puppets
4. War Pigs
5. Angel Of Death

I am going to "bump" this.




With point #1, in regards to the point you made about shocking, scaring, or at least making the audience uncomfortable; look, most of the songs in the top 10 have been assimilated into mainstream culture at some point, but Angel of Death? Not quite. Again, even though LARS FUCKING ULRICH, the guy who all the corporate suits look at as their greatest ambassador to metal because he's made them the most money, asked for Angel of Death personally to be on his game, they still denied him. If that's not metal, I don't know what is.

Impact? Of the three thrash giants that came out in 1986, this one had the least promotion, and it still became legendary. A big part of it was Angel of Death.
Popularity? because of it's touchy subject matter, it will never become bigger than any Sabbath, Metallica or Maiden hit, but I'd say it's the most popular "underground" metal song ever. Plus go up to any Slayer fan and ask them to name one song, they will say this one (although Guitar Hero III kind of mucked that up with Raining Blood, but again, if Angel of Death made it to Guitar Hero Metallica...)
Influence? Like with Sabbath and their self titled song, any real metal band that formed after 1986 was influenced by Slayer via Angel of Death.

Was it more controversial for it's era than Black Sabbath? I wouldn't say so...



That was over 20 years after it's release. 'Impact' is supposed to be initial, right?



Perhaps, but that doesn't really fit into the criteria, and it's subjective anyway.



Be careful about using words like "singlehandedly".
I would say it was the Reign In Blood album AS A WHOLE that set a new standard for thrash, not that song in particular.



Maybe, but does that make it greater than Black Sabbath?
Metal has been around much, much longer than 25 years. In the grand scheme of things, I still say Black Sabbath's influence is untouchable within metal overall. Not just because of the possibilities it introduced, but also because you can just HEAR the influence of it in so many metal acts who followed.



And this just proves that AoD lacks popularity...what's your point?



And yet, Black Sabbath was recorded at a time when the airwaves were ruled by psychedelia, pop, and blues rock.
It was a whole other beast.



What are the big thrash giants of 86? Puppets, Peace Sells and....To Mega Therion?



Black Sabbath had equally touchy subject matter and it became one of their biggest concert favorites. Plus it's praised by a whole slew of metal artists.

I would say it was, Black Sabbath's debut wasn't threatened to not be released by several record companies because of the song.





Puppets, Peace Sells and Reign In Blood. Come on now.



A guy dying and Satan coming round the bend? Yea, not quite.

Several? Can you confirm that?



Total brain fart there....I cant even believe I typed that...




Compared to everything ELSE in mainstream rock at that point? Are you serious?
Tell me who else was writing songs with direct references to Satan in the late 60's, and not just in a silly cartoonish way.
This song announced the dawn of a new era in rock.

Well I know that when Rick Rubin turned it in to Columbia Records, the original distributer they wouldn't put it out. I don't know the others but there was one or two before they went with Geffen Records.

The first album didn't have that happen to it at all.

Honestly, "Satan coming round the bend" is cartoonish. And I'm not denying the controversy of Black Sabbath. I just think Angel of Death's was/is greater.

Angel Of Death definitely has some intense lyrics, but I dont think that particular lyrical concept was copied as much as Black Sabbath's. How many metal artists used the concept of horror/supernatural themes as part of their lyrics? Where do you think that comes from?

And no Black Sabbath is not cartoonish. Most metal artists dont see it that way because the creepy, dramatic sound of the song makes it legitimately dark and unsettling. It wasn't meant to be silly or to be taken lightly, it's whole intent was to terrify the listener.

Anyway, should we rework this list too? Maybe get someone else on it if MJ7 isn't interested anymore?

List doesn't need to be reworked. It should get some minor updates if anything. And I explained some time ago why Ace of Spades > Black Sabbath, so I didn't post here. Go make some changes to top 10 songs from artists thread if you want BS to be highest Black Sabbath song. AoD should stay 5 (above BS). Putting it #1 is laughable. It's nowhere that great as MoP for example.

It's the song that announced metal as a serious genre. I've repeatedly said though, it's not merely because it was the first, but that you can hear it's influence throughout so many metal bands that followed, spanning nearly everything from Candlemass to Mercyful Fate to early Priest and beyond...
How does Master Of Puppets beat it by criteria? It's pointless to have musical and lyrical quality as criteria because it's all down to personal interpretation.
Master Of Puppets didn't have any huge impact, it took time for it to become their most acclaimed song. By contrast, Black Sabbath totally exploded right out of the gate, was horrifying audiences, listeners, and critics alike.
The critics in particular, mainly bashed Black Sabbath more than any other song on the album because it was more overtly evil.
As I said in the Top 10 Songs Index, War Pigs and Iron Man may be more popular, but there's no way they have more influence or impact.
Black Sabbath is the greatest metal song, it's the blueprint.

At any rate, Black Sabbath should be the highest ranking Sabbath song, and it should be top 3. Period.