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 Post subject: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:54 pm 
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alright, well im gonna throw up a rough draft

trying to balance popularity, influence, cultural impact, and critical acclaim as best i can

1. Eminem
2. Kanye West
3. Jay Z
4. Radiohead
5. Britney Spears
6. Beyonce
7. Outkast
8. The White Stripes
9. Coldplay
10. Missy Elliott
11. Justin Timberlake
12. Alicia Keys
13. Usher
14. The Strokes
15. 50 Cent
16. Green Day
17. U2
18. M.I.A.
19. Franz Ferdinand
20. Modest Mouse
21. Wilco
22. Queens of the Stone Age
23. Gorillaz
24. Gnarls Barkley
25. Nelly
26. Rihanna
27. T.I.
28. Destiny's Child
29. R. Kelly
30. Lil Wayne
31. Daft Punk
32. LCD Soundsystem
33. Arcade Fire
34. TV on the Radio
35. Amy Winehouse
36. Lady Gaga
37. Madonna
38. Kelly Clarkson
39. Aaliyah
40. Gwen Stefani
41. Mary J. Blige
42. Nelly Furtado
43. Red Hot Chili Peppers
44. Sufjan Stevens
45. The Killers
46. Norah Jones
47. The Black Eyed Peas
48. Yeah Yeah Yeahs
49. Nickelback
50. System of a Down
51. The Shins
52. The Streets
53. Dizzee Rascal
54. The Libertines
55. Arctic Monkeys
56. Interpol
57. Spoon
58. The Flaming Lips
59. Sigur Ros
60. Animal Collective
61. The Roots
62. PJ Harvey
63. Ludacris
64. Linkin Park
65. 'NSYNC
66. Christina Aguilera
67. Mariah Carey
68. Creed
69. Pink
70. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
71. Bob Dylan
72. 3 Doors Down
73. Avril Lavigne
74. Kid Rock
75. Muse
76. Kings of Leon
77. Hot Chip
78. Bruce Springsteen
79. Johnny Cash
80. Portishead
81. Common
82. Tom Waits
83. Ghostface Killah
84. Super Furry Animals
85. Sleater-Kinney
86. Cat Power
87. The National
88. Joanna Newsom
89. Ryan Adams
90. Scissor Sisters
91. Beck
92. John Mayer
93. Bright Eyes
94. The New Pornographers
95. Fergie
96. Fleet Foxes
97. Madvillain
98. N.E.R.D.
99. Dave Matthews Band
100. My Morning Jacket
unordered next group: Antony and the Johnsons, Chris Brown, Ashanti, Ja Rule, Akon, Santana, Matchbox Twenty, Maroon 5, Jennifer Lopez, Backstreet Boys, Iron & Wine, The Mars Volta, Fugazi, Nas, Fall Out Boy, Katy Perry, Evanescence, Disturbed, Blink 182, Drive-By Truckers, Tool, Opeth, Andrew Bird, Death Cab for Cutie, Bonnie "Prince" Billy, Pearl Jam, Weezer, My Chemical Romance, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Staind, Korn, Shakira, MGMT, The Hold Steady, Yo La Tengo, Audioslave, Bjork, Jill Scott, Foo Fighters, Vampire Weekend, Doves, The Hives, The Deftones, Kylie Minogue, Sonic Youth, D'Angelo, The Knife, Mogwai, Godspeed You Black Emperor, The Dandy Warhols, Erykah Badu, Deerhunter, The Darkness, Band of Horses, The Game, Damien Rice, Broken Social Scene, The Postal Service, The Raconteurs, Snoop Dogg, Limp Bizkit, Daughtry, The Fray, Lifehouse, Jessica Simpson, Ne-Yo, T-Pain, Wolf Parade, Ciara, Chingy, No Doubt, Rufus Wainwright, Feist, Bloc Party, Panda Bear, At the Drive-In, Amerie, M83, Primal Scream, Devendra Banhart, Peter Bjorn and John, Clipse, Slipknot, Jack Johnson, Lil Jon and the East Side Boyz, Metallica, Incubus, Godsmack, The All American Rejects, Sheryl Crow, AFI, Dr. Dre, Puddle of Mudd, Papa Roach, James Blunt, Switchfoot, Train, Soulja Boy Tell 'Em, Timbaland, Flo Rida


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:30 pm 
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new list is up.

not gonna give it to Lew until i get some feedback. its messy right now. just a rough draft. this is by far the hardest of the decades to make a list for, for many reasons (continued divide of the music world because radio stations are more geared towards one audience, internet giving a new home for independent bands that dont need airplay to get heard, etc).


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:03 pm 
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The Flaming Lips should probably be much higher than 57, considering they consistently came out with only good albums for the entire decade, and they influenced a lot of cheery, happy indie bands that came after them.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:50 am 
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I am curious as to why you have Brittney Spears so high.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:59 am 
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Rob wrote:
I am curious as to why you have Brittney Spears so high.


this was what i wrote a few months back on the old forum

pave wrote:
1. Eminem... this is a lock, and not because im a known huge fan of his, but because the criteria just gets dominated by him. he is the biggest selling artist of the decade and had the most cultural impact (although Britney is a close second in that category), and is almost universally recognized as the most talented emcee of his generation (at least in mainstream hip hop)
2. Radiohead... this is tricky, because they lack the kind of massive popularity and cultural impact of Britney, but i think everyone can see clearly that they have had the most influence on the direction that rock has gone outside of hip hop this decade. nearly every indie band has traces of Radiohead somewhere in them. and their body of work is as acclaimed as any.
3. Britney Spears... rock music seems pretty evenly split this decade between three directions- hip hop entering the mainstream, indie rock's massive popularity boost thanks to the internet age, and dance pop/r&b. only seems right that all three should be represented at the top. plus, she's the second biggest selling artist this decade (not counting The Beatles or the top selling country artists) and has had as much cultural impact as any artist along with Eminem. the list gets almost impossible from here, and people are bound to disagree but here goes.


my thinking was that all three of the major directions of rock music should see their biggest artist at the top. but even aside from that, i wanted the top to be only artists who saw both critical acclaim and massive popularity. i looked at the billboard "end of the decade" list which looked at the biggest selling artists, as well as acclaimedmusic's top 100 artists of the decade... the only artists in the top 25 of either that popped up on both top 100's were these...

(first number is the billboard, second is the acclaimedmusic ranking)
Eminem (1-9)
Jay Z (10-11)
Kanye West (15-6)
Beyonce (4-57)
50 Cent (6-52)
Britney Spears (8-94)
Outkast (32-3)
Justin Timberlake (24-23)
Coldplay (53-13)
Missy Elliott (52-14)


i gave special treatment to Radiohead because they were second on the acclaimedmusic list as well as having, from my perspective, a huge influence on the direction of indie rock. Britney, while selling less than Beyonce and 50 in the long run, was more popular at her peak than either of them as well as having a level of cultural impact that neither of them had. thats why she's at 3. its very possible that she could drop lower, but no lower than just behind Kanye/Jay Z/Beyonce/Outkast. none of the top 7 are going to drop out of the top 7 imo. when you break down that top 7, the deciding factor for me was Radiohead's influence and Britney's cultural impact as why i separated them from the Jay Z/Kanye/Outkast/Beyonce group. Outkast was too unique to have a huge amount of influence, and Kanye/Beyonce are as much a product of the times as they are leading a new scene. Britney was so huge in a cultural way that she became bigger than her music in many ways (just like Madonna in the 80s), and none of them reached that level to me. only Em and Britney had that kind of cultural impact.

im willing to listen to any counterarguments to move her lower. but that top 7 is stuck as far as who is in it even if the order moves around a lot.


edit: the 'best selling' title is weird, cause some lists take only album sales while others take in both singles and albums and others even through in airplay so idk. its really annoying to me trying to sort through this shit. :parrot:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:27 pm 
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From what I know about the decade, the revision looks to me like a very good list. Any disagreements I express in what follows are minor ones. I don't see anything on the list that looks seriously out of place.

When I was reading through the revision last night, I was thinking along the lines that pave was in his last post: which artists best combined popularity and critical acclaim during the '00s. I thought that Eminem, Outkast, and Kanye West probably did it the best, followed by Jay-Z and Coldplay. So as I looked at the top of the list, I saw the artist that I agree is a lock for #1, followed by a highly acclaimed artist, followed by a very popular artist, followed by 3 artists that are very popular and highly acclaimed. But point well taken about Britney beating the artists that follow her in cultural impact, and maybe that is enough to overcome her big disadvantage in acclaim, since she also has a small advantage over the next 3 in popularity.

As far Radiohead getting the #2 spot partly on the strength of huge influence, my question would be what music of theirs does their influence come from? I thought that by far, most of it came from their '90s music, but I could be wrong.

I'm surprised that with Outkast's 2 very big albums and big hit singles that they're only #32 in the decade in popularity.

If 50 Cent is #52 in acclaim and #6 in popularity, and neither Alicia Keys nor Usher is in the top 100 in acclaim, then 50 Cent should probably be ahead of both of them overall, unless they're in the top 5 in popularity, or score significantly in cultural impact. I don't believe either has much influence.

I can't think of any major '00s artists that I don't see listed either in the top 100 or in the "unordered next group", and I don't see any in the latter group that I think must be in the top 100. One that might be deserving of the top 100 is Evanescence. With a 7x platinum album and another that went 2x platinum along with strong UK popularity, they might be deserving of the top 100 on popularity alone.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:48 pm 
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Brain, I think Radiohead's 00s music has more acclaim now. I think the 90s stuff was a lot more popular and acclaimed on its release, but their 00s stuff has more acclaim now.

I would say Radiohead have had more of an impact on 00s music, though they obviously have had a huge impact on the 90s too, but I think, for example, on its release Kid A was panned by many a music publication, many fans turned against them on its release and was labelled as a masterpiece by very, very few. It was only because of its internet reviews and its popularity on the internet that caused many publications to go back on their original reviews and many of them ended the 00s naming it as the album of the decade. I think Kid A, more then any of their other albums, has had a huge musical influence in that it was the first album to show the power of the internet in getting musical acclaim and popularity, which has become a big feature in the 00s.

I have heard Kid A as a statement also compared to Dylan going electric, in terms of many fans turning on them, but ultimately Radiohead were proven right in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Avery, I agree that Radiohead's '00s music is highly acclaimed; influence is what i was questioning. You did touch on influence at the end of your 2nd paragraph.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:38 pm 
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as far as their influence on the direction of rock music in the 00s, its Kid A that I'm most concerned with.

also, i'm looking mostly at how the artists impacted the musical landscape in the decade.

how the decade broke down in terms of the major stylistic trends:
big picture trends-
*even more mainstream acceptance of hip hop
*European-inspired dancepop
*indie rock gains traction thanks to the internet (starts to incorporate electronic influences)
--- this is where i decided to put the top three as Em, Britney, and Radiohead- as the big symbols of the three big picture trends of the decade.

the big subgenre trends-
*alt hip hop goes mainstream
*Southern hip hop becomes huge (different cities/regions develop unique styles)
*rock revivals shape the early part of the decade (garage, post-punk/new wave)
*post-grunge is ignored by critics but still hugely popular
*nu-metal moves in different directions, partially at times merges with post-grunge to make up the "modern rock" landscape
*counter-culture becomes mainstream with pop-punk and emo
*post-britpop dominates mainstream in UK
*dozens of smaller subgenres arise and get grouped together as "indie rock", borrowing influences from late 80s alt rock, folk, 60s pop, electronica, etc in various different ways
*electronic based dance pop dies down after the teen pop craze but comes back with a storm at the end of the decade... female singers dominate pop music with a few exceptions
*contemporary R&B splits off into three separate directions: one merges with dance pop, one begins to merge to hip hop, and the other merges with adult contemporary... this forms the R&B landscape
*electronic music merges with all forms of rock and hip hop to blur the distinction between what had been considered separate genres


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:46 am 
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Even though Britney is the big symbol of American dance pop, I don't think she's the biggest influence. She is not as influential in her field as Kanye or Jay-Z in theirs (also two extremely popular artists). She also doesn't have the critical/musical acclaim that they have (nor OutKast or Beyonce). She unquestioningly has cultural impact (even ignoring the tabloid impact of her breakdown). Maybe it just looks weird seeing her above Jay-Z or Kanye. Sort of as if the list has an early decade bias.

That being said, her placement is the only one that looks controversial on this list and I'm sure you took everything I just said into account when making the list. So, I say "good job."


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:46 pm 
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I say "good job" too.

Is Madvillain in the top 100 almost entirely for critical acclaim for a single album? If so, I'd suggest that artists with 3 or 4 acclaimed albums are more probably more deserving. I have in mind Spoon, The Hold Steady, and Rufus Wainwright. They might not have a single album as great as Madvillain, but I think their combined albums add up to more, especially Spoon. I also think Spoon and The Hold Steady surpass My Morning Jacket in acclaim, and I believe My Morning Jacket has little going for them besides acclaim.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Spoon is at 57


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:59 pm 
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:cool:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:23 pm 
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:oops: Sorry, I don't know how I missed that.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists Of The 2000's
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:55 pm 
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pave wrote:
as far as their influence on the direction of rock music in the 00s, its Kid A that I'm most concerned with.

also, i'm looking mostly at how the artists impacted the musical landscape in the decade.

how the decade broke down in terms of the major stylistic trends:
big picture trends-
*even more mainstream acceptance of hip hop
*European-inspired dancepop
*indie rock gains traction thanks to the internet (starts to incorporate electronic influences)
--- this is where i decided to put the top three as Em, Britney, and Radiohead- as the big symbols of the three big picture trends of the decade.

the big subgenre trends-
*alt hip hop goes mainstream
*Southern hip hop becomes huge (different cities/regions develop unique styles)
*rock revivals shape the early part of the decade (garage, post-punk/new wave)
*post-grunge is ignored by critics but still hugely popular
*nu-metal moves in different directions, partially at times merges with post-grunge to make up the "modern rock" landscape
*counter-culture becomes mainstream with pop-punk and emo
*post-britpop dominates mainstream in UK
*dozens of smaller subgenres arise and get grouped together as "indie rock", borrowing influences from late 80s alt rock, folk, 60s pop, electronica, etc in various different ways
*electronic based dance pop dies down after the teen pop craze but comes back with a storm at the end of the decade... female singers dominate pop music with a few exceptions
*contemporary R&B splits off into three separate directions: one merges with dance pop, one begins to merge to hip hop, and the other merges with adult contemporary... this forms the R&B landscape
*electronic music merges with all forms of rock and hip hop to blur the distinction between what had been considered separate genres


This looks pretty accurate to me. The one big (and lamentable) trend you're missing is the metalcore craze, I think.


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