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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Boston did open up the doors for the whole AOR thing mostly. But Sabbath's debut was the wellspring for an entire GENRE of music, it was a radically new style at the time that had a remarkably profound impact on the rock world.
Boston didn't introduce a new style of music, it just upped the ante a little bit in terms of hype and album formula.


But that's more influence, where Sabbath clearly kills. I don't think the album had much of a short-term impact on the music business, although it clearly had a huge long-term influence.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:26 pm 
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Well it depends on how we're defining "impact".
Sabbath's debut was so controversial in that it shocked and appalled so many critics and writers. That's definitely making a huge impact. Although it was largely a negative reaction, the result is still the same: EFFECT.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:52 am 
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Can you provide examples of critics being "shocked and appalled" by Black Sabbath's debut?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:33 am 
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Not specific examples, no, I'm just going by what Iommi said:

"They hated us. Absolutely hated us. And they refused to play us on the radio."

"And the song 'Black Sabbath'...my God the looks on people's faces when we played that song, they were horrified."


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:46 pm 
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The list looks better. Not much to quibble with.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Quote:
82. Big Brother & The Holding Company (1967) - (Big Brother & the Holding Company)


One HELL of an underrated and overlooked album. I'm glad to see it on here, Brett.
Cheap Thrills is always the one that gets all the attention, but I honestly liked this one ever more. Janis isn't as wild and screechy as she would become later, and the songs are just killer.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Just thought of a missing album, one definitely deserving of a spot in the last 25 or so - Dick Dale's "Surfer's Choice" from 1963. Lasting popularity might be low, since generally albums of that era were taken off the market after a little while, never to return (though after Pulp Fiction it probably has some collector's popularity). But the other areas it does very well. Initial popularity has to account for the era and small label factor and so it's #59 showing on the charts is better than it appears. Influence it cleans up on. The instrumental surf-rock craze begins here, the shredding guitar style, the "wet" sound he came up with, the lyrical description of the surf-culture in Mr. Peppermint Man, all of these things had great influence. The impact of that on the music industry is seen in just how many surf-instrumental bands came out of the woodwork. The Beach Boys (whose "Surfin Safari" also should be considered for a low spot on the list BTW) always get the credit, but they were a vocal band with surf-themes and some instrumental chops, but Dale was the surf-rock guitar god. I think it earns a place here for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:47 pm 
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How about Lonnie Mack - The Wham Of That Memphis Man?

Also, as the biggest KISS fan on this site (dont even challenge me), I dont know if their first album should even be on here. It pretty much had no impact whatsoever, other than being laughed at by critics and writers, and as we all know, at LEAST 95% of Kiss' greatness comes from their live shows.
I dont see it as having much influence either.
Maybe popularity, but I dont know...


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
Just thought of a missing album, one definitely deserving of a spot in the last 25 or so - Dick Dale's "Surfer's Choice" from 1963.


It's from 1962:

http://books.google.com/books?id=txgEAA ... ce&f=false

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
Just thought of a missing album, one definitely deserving of a spot in the last 25 or so - Dick Dale's "Surfer's Choice" from 1963. Lasting popularity might be low, since generally albums of that era were taken off the market after a little while, never to return (though after Pulp Fiction it probably has some collector's popularity). But the other areas it does very well. Initial popularity has to account for the era and small label factor and so it's #59 showing on the charts is better than it appears. Influence it cleans up on. The instrumental surf-rock craze begins here, the shredding guitar style, the "wet" sound he came up with, the lyrical description of the surf-culture in Mr. Peppermint Man, all of these things had great influence.


A lot of these points are good, but I can't buy that the instrumental surf-rock craze began two years after the Ventures released "Walk Don't Run".

What would you drop to make room for it?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
Sampson wrote:
Just thought of a missing album, one definitely deserving of a spot in the last 25 or so - Dick Dale's "Surfer's Choice" from 1963. Lasting popularity might be low, since generally albums of that era were taken off the market after a little while, never to return (though after Pulp Fiction it probably has some collector's popularity). But the other areas it does very well. Initial popularity has to account for the era and small label factor and so it's #59 showing on the charts is better than it appears. Influence it cleans up on. The instrumental surf-rock craze begins here, the shredding guitar style, the "wet" sound he came up with, the lyrical description of the surf-culture in Mr. Peppermint Man, all of these things had great influence.


A lot of these points are good, but I can't buy that the instrumental surf-rock craze began two years after the Ventures released "Walk Don't Run".



Speaking of which, maybe it should be on the list:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:49 am 
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That's a great cover.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Also, as the biggest KISS fan on this site (dont even challenge me), I dont know if their first album should even be on here. It pretty much had no impact whatsoever, other than being laughed at by critics and writers, and as we all know, at LEAST 95% of Kiss' greatness comes from their live shows.
I dont see it as having much influence either.
Maybe popularity, but I dont know...

It peaked at #87 and spent 23 weeks on the chart. If popularity is the primary thing it has going for it, then I think it can easily be dropped.

You're a bigger KISS fan than Frethaygil?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Brian wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
Also, as the biggest KISS fan on this site (dont even challenge me), I dont know if their first album should even be on here. It pretty much had no impact whatsoever, other than being laughed at by critics and writers, and as we all know, at LEAST 95% of Kiss' greatness comes from their live shows.
I dont see it as having much influence either.
Maybe popularity, but I dont know...

It peaked at #87 and spent 23 weeks on the chart. If popularity is the primary thing it has going for it, then I think it can easily be dropped.


Kiss got dumped around page 11. It's not on the proposed new version.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Sampson wrote:
Just thought of a missing album, one definitely deserving of a spot in the last 25 or so - Dick Dale's "Surfer's Choice" from 1963.


It's from 1962:

http://books.google.com/books?id=txgEAA ... ce&f=false

Image


Which means it does even BETTER in the criteria, as 1963 was when more rock albums started charting higher, so it being in '62 means its position on the charts was better in context.


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