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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:55 am 
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Location: i'll send you to billy's
Ariel wrote:
What's funny is everyone on the internet and otherwise (other than hipster fucks, whose opinion is irrelevant) seems to agree that the 80s and the 00s were the sucky decades...here's to the '10s being better! :cheers:


:facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:19 am 
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Ariel wrote:
Thinking the 18-28 people should go something like this:
18. Phil Lesh/Jack Casady
19. Phil Lesh/Jack Casady
20. Cliff Burton
21. Stu Hamm
22. Steve Harris
23. John Deacon

with LaRue, Babbitt, and Dunn dropping below this area. Thoughts? And where the heck does Barrett go? Definitely in that 18-24 stretch I just roughly ordered, but where? Probably above Deacon I'd reckon


18. John Deacon/Steve Harris
19. John Deacon/Steve Harris
20. Phil Lesh
21. Jack Casady
22. Stu Hamm

I'd see Burton's ranking in the 30/40 field.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:40 am 
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DJ...Harris/Deacon (especially)...not so sure about those lofty numbers.

Probably right about Burton. Can't rank a guy on what could have, should have, or likely would have been. A lot of significant and innovative work...just not a large enough body to justify such a high placement. No way to tell if his artistic growth and personal stylistic advancement would have stood the test of time.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Latest haul (tonight): Sticky Fingers, Beyond Magnetic, Trespass, Beat, Freaky Styley, ...And Out Come the Wolves. Cheers! Good haul (the fact all these bands have outstanding bassists..minus maybe the Stones but I still like Bill a lot...is merely a coincidence, lol)


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:26 pm 
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(Yes, I'll get back to the topic soon, lol)


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:18 am 
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Ariel wrote:
Latest haul (tonight): Sticky Fingers, Beyond Magnetic, Trespass, Beat, Freaky Styley, ...And Out Come the Wolves. Cheers! Good haul (the fact all these bands have outstanding bassists..minus maybe the Stones but I still like Bill a lot...is merely a coincidence, lol)


Funny you mention the Stones, I know a guy who always used to say "Bill Wyman is the best damn bass player in rock & roll". I love Wyman but I never quite understood that claim... :lol:

No accounting for taste, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:58 pm 
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So where are we putting Justin Chancellor? high I hope.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:12 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
I know a guy who always used to say "Bill Wyman is the best damn bass player in rock & roll". I love Wyman but I never quite understood that claim... :lol:

No accounting for taste, I guess.


Yes, Bill Wyman is a very tasteful Bass Player. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Ssoyd wrote:
Ariel wrote:
What's funny is everyone on the internet and otherwise (other than hipster fucks, whose opinion is irrelevant) seems to agree that the 80s and the 00s were the sucky decades...here's to the '10s being better! :cheers:


That's because in those decades the Record companies had the tightest control over what music was put on record. That means music that sells the most while creativity and anything that is different is discouraged. When the bands and musicians have more control there is more creativity and more chances taken. There was a period in the 60s and 70s where the record company executives had no idea what would sell so they put all kinds of stuff on record and hoped it would sell. Variety was king.


Exactly.

StuBass wrote:
I found the Bass Player Magazine article from the Bass Giants issue from 2006. Some interesting things about Jack Casady. His early influences were the upright guys, Mingus and LaFaro. His electric bass influences are the usual suspects...Jamerson, Dunn, The James Brown guys...then later Entwistle, Bruce, Macca, etc. ..Working with a non conventional jazz oriented drummer with JA...Spencer Dryden, necessitated him to alter his style and provide more fills and rhythms in the band. Perhaps his biggest part of his distinctive style was his interest in electronics and his incorporation of distortion in his output. He credits that largely to the Versatone amp he aquired and pushed to the limit.

Cliff Lee Burton...Great promise and some highly innovative stylistic innovations. Question becomes...how "great" (all-time) can a guy be (through no fault of his own) whose entire significant career was encapsulated in three short years featuring only three studio albums of note? Obviously, longevity can't be a factor, nor can growth, versatility, and consistancy be objectively viewed as career factors. Potential can't really be factored in as an element of greatness.


Interesting stuff about Casady. You a James Brown fan Stu? Was Bernard Odum his main bass player of note for the purposes of a list like this?

I see Burton as a metal Scott LaFaro basically. Sure his life was short but he was so great, innovative and important that he more than justifies a good spot on this list. If it were just that he was talented and innovative that would be one thing, but his influence is too high that combined with everything else he does too well to keep him down in the 30s or 40s imo. Bear in mind he's universally seen by the metal community as THE bass god of metal, sort of how people see John Entwistle in rock.

StuBass wrote:
Eddie Watkins Jr...Detroit based (and later Los Angeles) player who did play on some significant hits for several artists and boasts some very solid performances. That said...stylistically not all that versatile and really didn't innovate much if anything. Might rank on an all R&B list, but I'd have trouble making a real strong case for him on this list...not that I don't see several names throughout this list that Eddie could play circles around.

Tony Newton...a few early Motown sessions, but mostly the touring guy with Motown. Some nice tracks on Invictus though, and performed and recorded with some other significant artists.


I want to hear your Newton story!

Dude is so creative that he probably will get a spot here based largely on that. Any other songs I should check out (other than She's Not Just Another Woman) from him? I want to hear more!

Also...Babbitt...I want to start looking into his playing more. I own What's Going On, what else should I get? Cheers

Negative Creep wrote:
Casady > Lesh.

Am I wrong?


They seem more or less analogous to me, bleh. I'm almost certain they'll be the top two ranked guys in the 18-28 stretch.

Ssoyd wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
Casady > Lesh.

Am I wrong?


Tough to say. Lesh is really good and his melodic improvisational style was very influential. Back in the 70s he was considered one of the best bassists in Rock.


As always, appreciate your input and recollections Ssoyd :-) It's actually very helpful information, knowing how people felt about the player back then, in terms of figuring out where they should end up on this list.

Machine Head wrote:
Ariel wrote:
What's funny is everyone on the internet and otherwise (other than hipster fucks, whose opinion is irrelevant) seems to agree that the 80s and the 00s were the sucky decades...here's to the '10s being better! :cheers:


:facepalm:


ahaha

D.J. wrote:
18. John Deacon/Steve Harris
19. John Deacon/Steve Harris
20. Phil Lesh
21. Jack Casady
22. Stu Hamm

I'd see Burton's ranking in the 30/40 field.


Nahhh if this were a talent list Deacon would be top 10 or 15 but in terms of greatness he can't be that high, sorry. Harris is just too limited and un-ambitious to jump guys like Phil and Jack, not to mention he came too late lol. I appreciate your input though :smile:

How do people here (that includes you DJ) feel about Phil v Jack?

Negative Creep wrote:
Ariel wrote:
Latest haul (tonight): Sticky Fingers, Beyond Magnetic, Trespass, Beat, Freaky Styley, ...And Out Come the Wolves. Cheers! Good haul (the fact all these bands have outstanding bassists..minus maybe the Stones but I still like Bill a lot...is merely a coincidence, lol)


Funny you mention the Stones, I know a guy who always used to say "Bill Wyman is the best damn bass player in rock & roll". I love Wyman but I never quite understood that claim... :lol:

No accounting for taste, I guess.


Yea but that dude's taste is just wrong lol. Bill is still good though

Classic Rock Junkie wrote:
So where are we putting Justin Chancellor? high I hope.


He'll get a respectable spot. Very creative and surprisingly innovative. Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Ariel wrote:

I see Burton as a metal Scott LaFaro basically. Sure his life was short but he was so great, innovative and important that he more than justifies a good spot on this list. If it were just that he was talented and innovative that would be one thing, but his influence is too high that combined with everything else he does too well to keep him down in the 30s or 40s imo. Bear in mind he's universally seen by the metal community as THE bass god of metal, sort of how people see John Entwistle in rock.



Ariel, could you please give me examples of exceptional playing by Burton. I have never heard any. From what I've heard he couldn't shine Entwistle's shoes. I'll keep an open mind but he doesn't impress me at all.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Re Odum...I'd say that Odum was James Browns signature bassist, although James fired and hired a lot of musicians and had some real good bassists in the mix.

Re Burton...I see your analysis in comparing Cliff to LaFaro so far as longevity is concerned, but I just don't see Burton at the same level as LaFaro. I'd have to rank Burton somewhere below Claypool for example. I would have liked to see Burton expand into some other genres...but unfortunately, he never had the opportunity. I just see most metal guys as pretty one dimensional (DUCK)...

Check Babbitts discography on his website. In addition to his body of work at Motown, he had some terrific perofrmances for artists as diverse as Barry Manilow, Elton John, The Spinners, etc. Talk about versatility!

I met Tony Newton, as I said, down at Smokeys house when I was about 14. I'd see him around a lot. He had an interest in a music store in Northwest Detroit. He had a guitar company come out with a signature "Newton" bass. When I was looking to upgrade from my first electric...a Kent, Tony tried to convince me to get a Newton. I considered it, but wisely opted for the Fender Jazz bass. When they formed The 8TH Day, I ran into Tony and he told me about his band. He just got a house in an upscale neighborhood and invited me to come over and his whole band was there...sort of like a hippie commune. When I moved to L.A. I ran into him and as I said...he offered to let me record a new demo tape at his apartment...I was working as a radio newscaster at the time. I was driving him nuts trying to get out a solid demo tape. Probably reminded him of some of the Motown producers doing 40 takes...


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:19 am 
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Stu, I agree on James Brown.
There's an episode of The Cosby Show where Cliff puts on a live version of "I Got The Feeling".....and man the bass on there is just SMOKIN'! The groove he had going on was just indescribably fucking killer.
The only problem is I don't know who it was.... :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:53 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Stu, I agree on James Brown.
There's an episode of The Cosby Show where Cliff puts on a live version of "I Got The Feeling".....and man the bass on there is just SMOKIN'! The groove he had going on was just indescribably fucking killer.
The only problem is I don't know who it was.... :oops:



Haha I remember that episode!



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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:06 am 
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That's it!
Stu, do you know the bass player's name there?

That groove just floors me....


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:11 am 
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Ariel, what's wrong with Deacon at 18/19? we are talking about one of the greatest bassline creators and a wonderful bassist indeed while his playing in an enourmos band like Queen give him a lot of influence too.
About Lesh vs Casady I tend to prefer Jack's work and playing, in terms of greatness they are really close though but again I don't think they are greater of the likes of Deacon or Harris (I'm still not sure about Hamm too).


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