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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Sherick wrote:
boo boo wrote:
As for FFTactics, if we're adding that to the tier list then just to be fair wouldn't we have to include ALL the FF spinoffs? Because that would be pretty time consuming.


None aside from the Tactics games have any acclaim at all, so it wouldn't be a bother.


Not entirely true. Final Fantasy Adventure is considered by many to be a fantastic action adventure game for the Game Boy, and it spawned the Mana series.

Dissidia got pretty good reviews too, as did the first Crystal Chronicles for the GameCube.

And of course Kingdom Hearts is technically a Final Fantasy spinoff too. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:21 pm 
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I don't think we need that many games in the second tier. IX is probably worthy of a bold as I said before, but not higher than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:04 am 
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IX is so underrated. It has a solid storyline, more solid than most and just as solid as VII with one of the best sets of characters seen in any Final Fantasy. The gameplay was fine, not the best but certainly not the worst. I guess the game itself didn't leave as much of an impact as when VII or X came out but that's because there was something new and special about them. IX carries alot of the same qualities as VII and their main difference is the storyline which, both are so good in their own way that, either one of them could be argued that they are better than the other. Just for reasons like that I think IX would be in a 2nd list rather than a 3rd.

Also IX > XII by a long shot. I haven't played enough I or Tactics to really compare those to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:13 am 
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That's all opinion, if we're talking about the acclaim of the game ( :facepalm: ) then its not that high. Its not even one of the most popular ones. I've already established the case for XII in both.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:15 am 
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Mind if I see your case, then? Cause XII was awful.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:20 pm 
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that's an opinion first of all, and XII definitely got more acclaim than IX


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:22 pm 
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XII sucked. Only Final Fantasy I couldn't even be bothered to finish.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:07 pm 
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timewarne404 wrote:
that's an opinion first of all, and XII definitely got more acclaim than IX


Yeah I wasn't really considering acclaim when I made that first post. Sorry guys, didn't mean to sound like a raging fanboy. But honestly, XII just lacked something for me. The storyline and depth of the characters wasn't solid enough for me to really get into it. What'd you think of it?


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:59 pm 
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It was a drastic departure from the rest of the series, even more than X because it actually had a different nature.
All the archetypes that had built up in the series starting with FFVII are there, or so it seems: bishi hero, brooding older sidekick, sexy ass-kicker who will probably be the love interest, a couple other buddies, all assembled somehow to take on the great evil plaguing the world and reveling in their evilness. Along the way, they discover that they are not so different from each other, decide their father knew what was best all along, maintain the confidence that they are still the good guys, the guy and girl realize they've been on screen together for longer than 30 minutes and need to start making babies as soon as the quest is over, etc.
Except...that isn't how it is.
You basic pretty blonde boy is Vaan, the hero of the story who...is not the hero of the story. He's a spectator, the main characters are three "sidekicks" you meat in the story: Ashe, the fugitive princess of the kingdom the story mostly takes place in, who is the true hero of the story; Basch, the old grizzled archetype with a chip on his shoulder; and Balthier, the Lando-Setzer lovechild that never was. All three have an exponentially greater stake in the conflict then your two "protagonists".
As for the whole evil thing, there's the tried-and-tested Evil Empire trying to...consolidate power, unite all the lands of Ivalice and create again a utopic nation the same fashion as had been done by, hm, Ashe's great-great....great grandfather.

I am seriously about to spoil this game hard, so don't read if you don't want to know.

Turns out this whole time there are a pantheon of ambivilent gods who control all human affairs, and were directly responsible for the creation of the old Golden Age, and now they have called for Ashe to destroy the empire using the most extreme means available (basically, do the same thing that the empire had been doing ((ie, nuking))). The Big Bad, Vayne son of the Emperor, who kills his father to become emperor, is also being led by a fallen god named Venat, and together are manipulating Ashe to destroy the Crystals created by the gods to give power to the mortals. They do this of course, by showing Ashe images of her dead husband, who appears as a ghost to tell her to go commit genocid (Vaan similarly is manipulated with the "ghost" of his brother).
So long story short, Ashe decides to fuck the gods, and destroys the Crystal so that teh EMPIRE can't use it anyway. This whole time, we see Vayne's perspective as well, where he decides to kill his father, the corrupt emporer, dissasemble the equally corrupt senate and become the new Overlord (Dynast-King in the story) to enact his utopia (he also has a kid brother who is very important to the story and adds plenty of depth to the whole empire scenario, but I don't want to get into that).
So the showdown is typically grand on top of Steam Tower (two bucks to whoever gets that reference) where Basch reconciles with his brother (another character that adds depth to the good? v evil? concept) and Vayne is mortally injured. After seeing his henchman prove weakened and useless, the Big Bad Venat does this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgx4slhzNWs#t=2m45s
Uh wait, was that...the personification of evil, the stand-in for Lucifer, comforting and showing compassion for the puppet he had used to screw mankind? And wait...did he succeed? And wait...what did he succeed at? He succeeded in...freeing mankind from the tyrannical and uncaring hands of their sociopathic gods. (He also gave up his immortality so that he could die along with his faithful servant.) The same gods whom the heroes had been questing for this whole time, who had bestowed magical gifts to them, they who were trying to destroy the "evil" empire with its "evil" ruler and ambitions.
To quote an observant user of TVTropes: "Ashe is the Big Bad". ...Actually you probably should just read the TVTropes page.
Oh yeah, and that love story? Never happens. Vaan couldn't care less about Ashe's snatch, and Ashe is still obsessed with her dead husband.

That's just a barebones summarization of the serious deconstruction of the genre that goes on here through my simple analyisizing.
Now, alot of folks have criticized the changes, particularly the seeming unimportance of the decoy protagonist. As is the fact that, as I'm sure you discovered, the game seems to be more occupied with the immense exploration and questing than with the central story. But in fact that is one of the more genius moves in the development of this game. This whole big story, the complex backstory and political intrigue as seen through the eyes of a peasant kid from the streets doesn't mean a whole lot and probably doesn't make much sense. Instead, the aspiring treasure hunter is far more interested in exploring the world and having adventures (which is why Vaan is the avatar when not in cutscenes; talking with people, accepting quests, bartaring, learning things, developing). So being that the player avatar is Vaan, and not Ashe, it is logical that the focus of the game sometimes is not on the plot, but in the playing.
Ah yes, playing, exploring, discovering...who the fuck put that in my RPG?

Anyway, I could go into how motherfucking beautiful the game looks, how I've never seen level designs like that before, how the writing and voiceacting is miles ahead of FFX, or the music is truly mesmorizing, but I believe I've written enough to bore everyone already.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Sherrick Man <3

I can see where you're coming from now. My own disappointment with the game helps me look over some of your vital points. The only thing I really disagree with, and that I think I could actually prove a decent argument, is the writing being better than X. The Final Fantasy X storyline was truly remarkable and, even though under the conditions of an obvious fantasy world, it's also very believable. I've never really been able to feel the emotion the characters give off quite like I do from FFX.

Also, did you get my PM?


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:39 pm 
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I had some of the same problems others did, which is what lead me to analyze certain aspects of the game and I ended up coming out with a lot.

I agree FFX had a great story, no matter what anybody says, I thought he was really imaginative. By "writing" I really meant the dialogue, not so much the story. FFX has a more fantastic story, for lack of a better word, while XII's is more complex or layered. I mean, I love VIII (more than X actually) and I can admit that the story in that is a little bad, and the writing isn't amongst the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:42 pm 
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NES
1987 Final Fantasy
1988 Final Fantasy II
1990 Final Fantasy III

Game Boy/Color
1990 The Final Fantasy Legend
1991 Final Fantasy Legend II
1991 Final Fantasy Adventure
1993 Final Fantasy Legend III

SNES
1991 Final Fantasy IV
1992 Final Fantasy V
1993 Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest
1994 Final Fantasy VI

PlayStation
1997 Final Fantasy VII
1997 Final Fantasy Tactics
1999 Final Fantasy VIII
2000 Final Fantasy IX

PlayStation 2
2001 Final Fantasy X
2002 Final Fantasy XI
2003 Final Fantasy X-2
2006 Final Fantasy XII
2006 Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII

Game Boy Advance
2003 Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
2004 Final Fantsy I & II: Dawn of Souls

DS
2007 Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
2007 Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift
2009 Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light

PSP
2007 Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
2008 Dissidia

Multiple Platforms
2009 Final Fantasy XIII
2010 Final Fantasy XIV


Last edited by Sherick on Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:17 pm 
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I think FF9 should be regular bold, because even though it doesn't have universal acclaim, it's very polarizing and people should have it marked on their list just so they can decide for themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Whoops, actually I meant to bold that. That and VIII are easily the most polarizing, some love it fanatically, alot hate them vigorously, and alot are in between. Both have plenty of good stuff to ask everyone to judge for themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Well I went ahead and put in everything and divided into consoles. Wasn't sure about counting Legend, but I put it in anyway.


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