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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:41 am 
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Ariel wrote:
Also have we suddenly discarded the idea that influence and innovation are basically worth more than the other scores, all of a sudden? If not I don't see Carey beating Dave easily (and I say this being a HUGE Carey fan I'd say he's one of a very VERY select few who challenge Bruford in terms of creativity, finesse and depth as a musician on drums).


I love how you mention Bruford in almost every post. You're just like me with Peart. :biggrin:
I disagree here though.

Ariel wrote:
(it doesn't matter if Tommy did double bass seriously first, Dave invented the sound and approach that people to this day associate with double bass)


How did he do that? I don't see it at all.





Ariel wrote:
IN MY MIND using both criteria and what I was calling intangibles before, something like this...

11. Purdie (if he's as amazing and important JUST IN ROCK as I get the impression he is...)
12. Dave
13. Carey
14. Earl
15. Tommy
16. Ward
17. Benny
18. Stewart
19. Carmine
20. Jeff
21. Mitch
22. Portnoy


I could definitely see Carey > Lombardo.
Dave Lombardo is a monster, but he is nowhere near the creative artist that Carey is.

Influence - Lombardo
Innovation - Lombardo
Originality - Carey
Creativity - Carey by far
Stylistic Versatility - Carey (Grip Inc. is awesome but not enough to overcome what Carey does throughout various Tool songs, and I haven't even heard Volto yet)
Skill - Carey

Now, assuming that you agree with that assessment, and I think it's fair, even though influence and innovation are most important, they are still only 1/3 of the criteria. So Lombardo IMO gets beaten 4-2 by Carey.
What say you, CRJ?


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:12 am 
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I did the same breakdown as you Neg a few pages back. So yes in that case Carey beats Lombardo.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:22 am 
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They are dangerously close though.
Carey is just too much of an artist on the instrument.

Wait though, are you still including 'importance' here too?
Lombardo would take that over Carey, would that make a difference? Carey would still win 4-3, but it would be even closer than before... :freak:


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
They are dangerously close though.
Carey is just too much of an artist on the instrument.

Wait though, are you still including 'importance' here too?
Lombardo would take that over Carey, would that make a difference? Carey would still win 4-3, but it would be even closer than before... :freak:


importance counts under innovation, or influence whichever you want. It's not a seperate criteria because it's too similar to the other two, but it factors into both of them. Lombardo still wins those 2 over Carey, but Carey gets the rest.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Someone please change the writeups a bit when you are editing them.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:54 pm 
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I'm definitely going to change the bios. I'm going to try to not make bruford's gushing but right now his is so lackluster.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Isn't Appice sorely lacking in skill, stylistic versatility and creativity?
I've always thought all he has is influence and originality.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:05 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Isn't Appice sorely lacking in skill, stylistic versatility and creativity?
I've always thought all he has is influence and originality.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY9W2kMi ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j4wfPep8Mw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa2rMmePY50

He's not that bad in skill and has a good groove. He's generally considered a pretty creative drummer for his Jeff Beck work, and his originality is pretty high. Haven't listened to enough to say about stylistic versatility. He's gets innovation cred for the same reason as Palmer, arguably the first rock showman. Influence is HUGE. He was also one of the first drummers to start organized drum clinics. He's also made tons of instructional books. And yeah he is quite skilled, not great but pretty good.

You may want to listen to the last one, Lady is one of the most creative performances out there. I'd give him good stylistic versatility but not high. I think he's rightfully where he is.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:08 am 
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Lady may actually be my favorite rock performance as far as drums go


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:14 am 
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Yousha wrote:
Lady may actually be my favorite rock performance as far as drums go


And that's completely reasonable. It's a fantastic performance, landmark really.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:21 am 
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DAMN the guy is great! I absolutely cannot believe that I hadn't checked out that BBA album much earlier in my life. Lady...that was epic stuff, seriously incredible.

I'm damn sure gonna have to check out Vanilla Fudge as well...

Thanks for these links!
He doesn't really strike me as a showman though. Moon, Bonzo, Palmer, those are showmen...

Oh yeah, WHAT THE FUCK IS MIKE PORTNOY DOING ABOVE THIS GUY?


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:35 am 
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Mike Portnoy is being moved down to like 22. I haven't updated the list because we aren't done with top 20, I'll change their placements all at once, or just soon.

Appice was the FIRST showman type player in rock, not anywhere near as big as the other, but remember he was a huge influence on Bonzo and all the others you mentioned. He started stick twirling and the cross over playing and stuff before other people made a big thing out of it.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:09 am 
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So the top 10 is set, now who should get #11?


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Purdie, then probably Aldridge if we agree he beats Carey. I'm having issues with the breakdowns for Porcaro and Copeland, since Copeland pretty much ties anyone in this area in innovation and originality, if not wins it out right, has very high influence, stylistic versatility, and skill. He does really well all around, but some up ahead beat him in Influence, but that's about all I can think of. Maybe he could move up, idk. Carey beats him outright, but other than that.....


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Yeah this is all very tough. How do you choose between Carey and Aldridge? Imo...

Influence - Aldridge
Originality - Aldridge barely
Creativity - Carey barely
Innovation - Aldridge
Skill - Carey
Stylistic Versatility - Carey

By that, they tie. So tie-breaker goes to influence, would you agree with that?

Also, recommendations for Purdie's best material?


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