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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:51 am 
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Bruce wrote:
dianeemuller wrote:
If nothing else, we agree on one thing. My love for The Doors is pretty fucking indescribable too. Okay, tell me this, now. Can you imagine what a Beach Boys version of "Back Door Man" would sound like? Omigod, what an abortion that would be.



About as much of an abortion as the Doors trying to sing harmony.

------------
Make up your mind. You seemed to be claiming that the Beach Boys *couldn't* really sing harmony.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:14 am 
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Regarding The Beach Boys,
Here's diane's list of artists she believes have more influence and impact...

1. Chuck Berry
2. The Beatles
3. Little Richard
4. Bo Diddley
5. Elvis Presley
6. James Brown
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Bob Dylan
9. Smokey Robinson
10. Carl Perkins

First off, an automatic YES for Berry, Presley, Beatles, Little Richard, Brown, and Dylan. Those six artists are nothing less than titans of their respective arts.
Where I have to strongly disagree is on Diddley, Robinson and Perkins.
Perkins in particular I have to just lol at. I mean, I don't think his influence stretched that far beyond the rockabilly scene, whereas The Beach Boys were influencing the likes of THE BEATLES for crying out loud, plus probably every other ethereal vocal harmony group that followed in the near future.
Diddley and Robinson are pioneers and icons, though, and they deserve every accolade they get.
I just don't think they top The Beach Boys in impact or influence.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:33 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Perkins in particular I have to just lol at. I mean, I don't think his influence stretched that far beyond the rockabilly scene, whereas The Beach Boys were influencing the likes of THE BEATLES for crying out loud.


Perkins influenced The Beatles, too, though. I love their cover of "Honey Don't" in particular. I think they might have done more Carl Perkins covers (SEVEN!) than of any other artist.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:57 am 
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You're right, I love their cover of Matchbox too.

But his impact and influence are not on the same level as The Beach Boys.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
You're right, I love their cover of Matchbox too.

But his impact and influence are not on the same level as The Beach Boys.

-----------
Are you kidding me? He influenced Creedence, The Band, Springsteen, not to even mention the slew of artists like Blasters, Stray Cats, Dave Edmunds, Robert Gordon etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Regarding The Beach Boys,
Here's diane's list of artists she believes have more influence and impact...

1. Chuck Berry
2. The Beatles
3. Little Richard
4. Bo Diddley
5. Elvis Presley
6. James Brown
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Bob Dylan
9. Smokey Robinson
10. Carl Perkins

First off, an automatic YES for Berry, Presley, Beatles, Little Richard, Brown, and Dylan. Those six artists are nothing less than titans of their respective arts.
Where I have to strongly disagree is on Diddley, Robinson and Perkins.
Perkins in particular I have to just lol at. I mean, I don't think his influence stretched that far beyond the rockabilly scene, whereas The Beach Boys were influencing the likes of THE BEATLES for crying out loud, plus probably every other ethereal vocal harmony group that followed in the near future.
Diddley and Robinson are pioneers and icons, though, and they deserve every accolade they get.
I just don't think they top The Beach Boys in impact or influence.


Bo Diddley influenced *everybody*, from Buddy Holley to Run-DMC and onward. He never had the big hits, but he probably had a more *wide*-ranging influence than any other artist, with the possible exception of Berry.

Smokey Robinson IMO surpassed even Chuck Berry as a lyricist. He also had an incredibly beautiful and expressive singing voice. Bruce disagrees with me on this point, but that's how I hear it. He was indispensable to the success of Motown, through his artistry, his songwriting, and his work as producer and executive. And unlike, say, Bob Dylan, he could sing other people's compositions and make them sound great too. I particularly like his version of "Walk On By." Incidentally I believe Bob Dylan called him America's greatest poet, or something like that. He certainly was influential. Every time you hear The Temptations' "My Girl" in a commercial, you're hearing a Smokey Robinson song.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:45 pm 
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dianeemuller wrote:
Not in terms of popularity, but certainly in terms of influence. Just for starters, 3 other artists on that list were influenced by Perkins: Elvis, the Beatles, and the Stones.


Carl is not top ten in influence. Not even close.

Sampson has him #62 on the site's list of "Most Influential Rock Artists."

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_influential.html


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
dianeemuller wrote:
Not in terms of popularity, but certainly in terms of influence. Just for starters, 3 other artists on that list were influenced by Perkins: Elvis, the Beatles, and the Stones.


Carl is not top ten in influence. Not even close.

Sampson has him #62 on the site's list of "Most Influential Rock Artists."

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_influential.html


Okay, I looked at Sampson's list, and I don't agree with it. I don't agree with a *lot* of it. But this isn't the time or place to get into that.

Several of the people I cited as having been influenced by Perkins are favorite artists of yours. Do you deny his influence on them?


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Quote:
There isn't the slightest trace of blues roots in anything they ever recorded. And that's unlike almost all the other artists being talked about in this thread. No blues influence at all. *That's* why I have such a hard time taking them seriously as a "great rock & roll band." Their music was as bleached as their hair.


I can agree with that, but bleached hair music also has its place in the rock & roll world.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:08 pm 
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dianeemuller wrote:
Bruce wrote:
dianeemuller wrote:
Not in terms of popularity, but certainly in terms of influence. Just for starters, 3 other artists on that list were influenced by Perkins: Elvis, the Beatles, and the Stones.


Carl is not top ten in influence. Not even close.

Sampson has him #62 on the site's list of "Most Influential Rock Artists."

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_influential.html


Okay, I looked at Sampson's list, and I don't agree with it. I don't agree with a *lot* of it. But this isn't the time or place to get into that.

Several of the people I cited as having been influenced by Perkins are favorite artists of yours. Do you deny his influence on them?


Not at all. I just don't think he's even close to being among the ten most influential artists.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:16 pm 
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dianeemuller wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
You're right, I love their cover of Matchbox too.

But his impact and influence are not on the same level as The Beach Boys.

-----------
Are you kidding me? He influenced Creedence, The Band, Springsteen, not to even mention the slew of artists like Blasters, Stray Cats, Dave Edmunds, Robert Gordon etc.


Comparing names is kinda pointless, I mean you REALLY don't think The Beach Boys influenced as many artists as that?!
Perkins is great, but his time in the spotlight was too short, and his overall body of work just isn't extensive enough to compete with The Beach Boys.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
dianeemuller wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
You're right, I love their cover of Matchbox too.

But his impact and influence are not on the same level as The Beach Boys.

-----------
Are you kidding me? He influenced Creedence, The Band, Springsteen, not to even mention the slew of artists like Blasters, Stray Cats, Dave Edmunds, Robert Gordon etc.


Comparing names is kinda pointless, I mean you REALLY don't think The Beach Boys influenced as many artists as that?!
Perkins is great, but his time in the spotlight was too short, and his overall body of work just isn't extensive enough to compete with The Beach Boys.


No, with all due respect, I really don't think so. I named 7 artists off the top of my head who were influenced by Perkins, plus I already named Elvis, Beatles, and Rolling Stones, so that's 10. So, just quickly, see if you can name 10 well-known artists who were clearly influenced by the Beach Boys.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:51 pm 
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dianeemuller wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
You're right, I love their cover of Matchbox too.

But his impact and influence are not on the same level as The Beach Boys.

-----------
Are you kidding me? He influenced Creedence, The Band, Springsteen, not to even mention the slew of artists like Blasters, Stray Cats, Dave Edmunds, Robert Gordon etc.


You forgot Ricky Nelson, who stated Carl Perkins was his favorite artist.

Problem is, Carl's influence, while precise, was very limited in scope. All of those artists, plus the aforementioned Beatles, etc., loved his music, but Perkins didn't have enormous innovation to get him primary influence. He may be considered the definitive rockabilly artist, but he wasn't first, Presley's earlier work beat him to it by a year and a half and if anything Presley was more influential to Carl, than vice versa, or at least Presley's success at Sun opened the door for Perkins. He was a great guitarist in a specific style that always has been a part of rock 'n' roll, but waned in how widespread it was, at least in its purest form. Harrison used it effectively early on, the rockabilly revival acts (Stray Cats, Edmonds, etc.) did, but that wasn't omnipresent throughout rock since then. His songwriting was very strong, but was too rural and old to connect with rock's primary audience at the time. You can give him some credit for the object fetishization that took hold in lyrics with the shoes as a symbol of success, but Presley beat him to that too by adding the line about the pink cadillac in Baby Let's Play House.

Perkins is far behind not only the Beach Boys, whose studio influence is immense, but most of the others mentioned here. I love Carl, I think "Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby" is one of the coolest songs of its time - "They took some honey from a tree/dressed it up and called it me" - but like a lot of artists he's given more credit than he deserves for influence because he's name checked a lot by subsequent big-name stars. Perkins had four of his songs done by the Beatles, who also copped four of Larry Williams songs, yet Williams is never commonly referred to as an influence on them.

I agree though on Diddley's influence, which if anything is underrated by most, who only refer to the hambone beat that bears his name. He was way more versatile than Perkins and far more innovative, which is where influence starts. Still though, Top Ten most deserving Hall of Famers? There's been a half dozen more deserving in the last ten years alone, which have been the low point of the Hall's credibility. However that said, Bo shouldn't have had to wait until Year Two to get in, that was unjust.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:06 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
Perkins is far behind not only the Beach Boys, whose studio influence is immense, but most of the others mentioned here. I love Carl, I think "Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby" is one of the coolest songs of its time - "They took some honey from a tree/dressed it up and called it me" - but like a lot of artists he's given more credit than he deserves for influence because he's name checked a lot by subsequent big-name stars.


1) (Let's just clarify that Carl Perkins didn't write "Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby," although IIRC he did add the line you quoted.)

2) If, as you say, the Beach Boys influence is immense, then I'll ask you the same question I asked Creep: can you please name 10 well-known artists they clearly influenced?

3) I'm not sure what you mean by "studio influence," could you clarify that?


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
Bo shouldn't have had to wait until Year Two to get in, that was unjust.


I assume you wanted them to induct more than ten artists the first year then. But if they insisted on only ten the first year, would you still say Bo would be one of them, and if so, who would he replace?


Chuck Berry
James Brown
Ray Charles
Sam Cooke
Fats Domino
Everly Brothers
Buddy Holly
Jerry Lee Lewis
Little Richard
Elvis Presley


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