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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Re The Four Seasons...by 1967 the only constant in the group was Frankie. That's why the R&R HOF only inducted the members who were with the group through 1966. After that, they went in several directions, including an unsuccessful stint with Motown. The original members got into deep financial problems over bad investments. Frankie stepped up and personally agreed to pay back all the money, which he eventually paid back every penny.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
:lol:

It was absurd to write off a group like the Beach Boys as "trivial". For many they're the greatest American rock band of all time (that is, for many who aren't biased towards the era they grew up in, and are able to gauge all eras objectively).

Personally I dont think the Beach Boys are greater than The Who, but to write them off as trivial certainly implies a lack of education on the history of rock & roll.

--------------
I admit to a lack of education on the history of rock & roll *after, say, 1972*. But a quick look back at my top 10 list is in order before you accuse me:
1. Chuck Berry
2. The Beatles
3. Little Richard
4. Bo Diddley
5. Elvis Presley
6. James Brown
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Bob Dylan
9. Smokey Robinson
10. Carl Perkins

Anybody on there you want to quarrel with? Anybody on there who isn't a giant in rock & roll history? Anybody on there whose impact and influence can be questioned?
Seriously, you think the Beach Boys rank higher than Buddy Holley? Ray Charles? Fats Domino? Jerry Lee Lewis? The Doors? Jimi Hendrix?

I sure don't. And, as Bruce was "kind" enough to point out, I was *there*.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Bruce quoted someone on RYM talking about "Pet Sounds," who said:

"Or to put it another way: The production work is elaborate and seminal, but strip it away and what you have left is a gaggle of intensely annoying, slightly cloying songs."

This pretty much sums up my opinion of the album. I am very fond of "Sloop John B" and "God Only Knows." Never was too big on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" (this has to do with--gasp!--the lyrics). Had no use for the rest of it then, have no use for it now.

Comparing Pet Sounds to albums like The Doors, Sergeant Pepper, Let It Bleed, Abbey Road, or Morrison Hotel, for me, is as absurd as comparing Ripple to champagne.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
StuBass wrote:
Pet Sounds was an iconic musical statement and an American response to the British Invasion when (other than Motown) no artists could garner much attention or consistantly chart.


Ever hear of the Four Seasons and James Brown?


...Jackie Wilson, the Drifters, and various Buddy Holly imitators such as Tommy Roe and Bobby Vee were still quite active.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Quote:
Anybody on there you want to quarrel with? Anybody on there who isn't a giant in rock & roll history? Anybody on there whose impact and influence can be questioned?
Seriously, you think the Beach Boys rank higher than Buddy Holley? Ray Charles? Fats Domino? Jerry Lee Lewis? The Doors? Jimi Hendrix?


Rank higher in terms of what? The Beach Boys' musical accomplishments far outweigh those of Buddy Holly and Jerry Lee. Probably The Doors too, as much as I hate saying that because my love for them is indescribable.

Once again, I'm not even that huge of a fan, but The Beach Boys are one of the 10 greatest rock artists of all time, period.

Again, they are viewed by many as the greatest American rock group of all time.

And yes I saw Bruce's quotes. Who gives a shit? I'm not going to base my opinion on what some dumbass journalist writes in a magazine, I'm gonna base my opinion on what I see from studying rock history.
End of story.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Quote:
Anybody on there you want to quarrel with? Anybody on there who isn't a giant in rock & roll history? Anybody on there whose impact and influence can be questioned?
Seriously, you think the Beach Boys rank higher than Buddy Holley? Ray Charles? Fats Domino? Jerry Lee Lewis? The Doors? Jimi Hendrix?


Rank higher in terms of what? The Beach Boys' musical accomplishments far outweigh those of Buddy Holly and Jerry Lee. Probably The Doors too, as much as I hate saying that because my love for them is indescribable.

Once again, I'm not even that huge of a fan, but The Beach Boys are one of the 10 greatest rock artists of all time, period.

Again, they are viewed by many as the greatest American rock group of all time.

And yes I saw Bruce's quotes. Who gives a shit? I'm not going to base my opinion on what some dumbass journalist writes in a magazine, I'm gonna base my opinion on what I see from studying rock history.
End of story.


Those quotes were not from journalists, they were from Rate Your Music users.

Here's how I ranked the American Rock Groups on the "300 Greatest Popular Artists" list"

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_artistspop.html

24. Beach Boys
70. Eagles
85. John Fogerty & Creedence Clearwater Revival
106. Doors
109. Bon Jovi
111. Sly and the Family Stone
118. George Clinton / Parliament / Funkadelic
123. Crosby, Stills and Nash
138. Metallica
147. Byrds


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Quote:
Anybody on there you want to quarrel with? Anybody on there who isn't a giant in rock & roll history? Anybody on there whose impact and influence can be questioned?
Seriously, you think the Beach Boys rank higher than Buddy Holley? Ray Charles? Fats Domino? Jerry Lee Lewis? The Doors? Jimi Hendrix?


Rank higher in terms of what? The Beach Boys' musical accomplishments far outweigh those of Buddy Holly and Jerry Lee. Probably The Doors too, as much as I hate saying that because my love for them is indescribable.
-------------
Rank higher in terms of *impact and influence*, as I said. Buddy Holly's career was brief, but his influence was enormous, even to this day. Jerry Lee Lewis, well maybe not so much, perhaps his greatest influence was as a "rock & roll wild man" rather than specifically as a musician, but behind all the theatrics and drama he certainly could play that old piano.

If nothing else, we agree on one thing. My love for The Doors is pretty fucking indescribable too. Okay, tell me this, now. Can you imagine what a Beach Boys version of "Back Door Man" would sound like? Omigod, what an abortion that would be.

And *that's* the crux of my objection to the Beach Boys. I just realized what it is. There isn't the slightest trace of blues roots in anything they ever recorded. And that's unlike almost all the other artists being talked about in this thread. No blues influence at all. *That's* why I have such a hard time taking them seriously as a "great rock & roll band." Their music was as bleached as their hair.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:27 pm 
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dianeemuller wrote:
If nothing else, we agree on one thing. My love for The Doors is pretty fucking indescribable too. Okay, tell me this, now. Can you imagine what a Beach Boys version of "Back Door Man" would sound like? Omigod, what an abortion that would be.

And *that's* the crux of my objection to the Beach Boys. I just realized what it is. There isn't the slightest trace of blues roots in anything they ever recorded. And that's unlike almost all the other artists being talked about in this thread. No blues influence at all. *That's* why I have such a hard time taking them seriously as a "great rock & roll band." Their music was as bleached as their hair.

-------------
(I'm an old blues fan
And I think
that you understand
I've been listening to blues
ever since the world began.)


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:38 pm 
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dianeemuller wrote:
And *that's* the crux of my objection to the Beach Boys. I just realized what it is. There isn't the slightest trace of blues roots in anything they ever recorded. And that's unlike almost all the other artists being talked about in this thread. No blues influence at all. *That's* why I have such a hard time taking them seriously as a "great rock & roll band." Their music was as bleached as their hair.


LOL.....this is EXACTLY what I was thinking. That because you're such a big blues fan, you think that any artist that had no blues influence is somehow less serious. Tell us, where's the blues influence on Smokey Robinson?


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
dianeemuller wrote:
And *that's* the crux of my objection to the Beach Boys. I just realized what it is. There isn't the slightest trace of blues roots in anything they ever recorded. And that's unlike almost all the other artists being talked about in this thread. No blues influence at all. *That's* why I have such a hard time taking them seriously as a "great rock & roll band." Their music was as bleached as their hair.


LOL.....this is EXACTLY what I was thinking. That because you're such a big blues fan, you think that any artist that had no blues influence is somehow less serious. Tell us, where's the blues influence on Smokey Robinson?

-----------------
"Who's Loving You" for starters. "Shop Around" and "Got A Job" were pretty bluesy, or at least the melody lines were based on the blues scale.

I can't really imagine Smokey singing "Back Door Man," but I can easily imagine him doing a fine job on "Please Send Me Someone To Love," for example.


Last edited by diane on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:36 pm 
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dianeemuller wrote:
If nothing else, we agree on one thing. My love for The Doors is pretty fucking indescribable too. Okay, tell me this, now. Can you imagine what a Beach Boys version of "Back Door Man" would sound like? Omigod, what an abortion that would be.



About as much of an abortion as the Doors trying to sing harmony.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:26 pm 
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dianeemuller wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
:lol:

It was absurd to write off a group like the Beach Boys as "trivial". For many they're the greatest American rock band of all time (that is, for many who aren't biased towards the era they grew up in, and are able to gauge all eras objectively).

Personally I dont think the Beach Boys are greater than The Who, but to write them off as trivial certainly implies a lack of education on the history of rock & roll.

--------------
I admit to a lack of education on the history of rock & roll *after, say, 1972*. But a quick look back at my top 10 list is in order before you accuse me:
1. Chuck Berry
2. The Beatles
3. Little Richard
4. Bo Diddley
5. Elvis Presley
6. James Brown
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Bob Dylan
9. Smokey Robinson
10. Carl Perkins

Anybody on there you want to quarrel with? Anybody on there who isn't a giant in rock & roll history? Anybody on there whose impact and influence can be questioned?
Seriously, you think the Beach Boys rank higher than Buddy Holley? Ray Charles? Fats Domino? Jerry Lee Lewis? The Doors? Jimi Hendrix?

I sure don't. And, as Bruce was "kind" enough to point out, I was *there*.



I'd put them above Lewis, the Doors, and Jimi, yeah. Possibly above Holly or Domino, too--it's close.

And they're DEFINITELY ahead of Perkins. I love Carl Perkins, but it's not even particularly close.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
dianeemuller wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
:lol:

It was absurd to write off a group like the Beach Boys as "trivial". For many they're the greatest American rock band of all time (that is, for many who aren't biased towards the era they grew up in, and are able to gauge all eras objectively).

Personally I dont think the Beach Boys are greater than The Who, but to write them off as trivial certainly implies a lack of education on the history of rock & roll.

--------------
I admit to a lack of education on the history of rock & roll *after, say, 1972*. But a quick look back at my top 10 list is in order before you accuse me:
1. Chuck Berry
2. The Beatles
3. Little Richard
4. Bo Diddley
5. Elvis Presley
6. James Brown
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Bob Dylan
9. Smokey Robinson
10. Carl Perkins

Anybody on there you want to quarrel with? Anybody on there who isn't a giant in rock & roll history? Anybody on there whose impact and influence can be questioned?
Seriously, you think the Beach Boys rank higher than Buddy Holley? Ray Charles? Fats Domino? Jerry Lee Lewis? The Doors? Jimi Hendrix?

I sure don't. And, as Bruce was "kind" enough to point out, I was *there*.



I'd put them above Lewis, the Doors, and Jimi, yeah. Possibly above Holly or Domino, too--it's close.

And they're DEFINITELY ahead of Perkins. I love Carl Perkins, but it's not even particularly close.


Yes, Perkins is one of my all time favorites too, but he's nowhere near top ten of all time rock and rollers.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:07 am 
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Bruce wrote:
Brett Alan wrote:
dianeemuller wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
:lol:

It was absurd to write off a group like the Beach Boys as "trivial". For many they're the greatest American rock band of all time (that is, for many who aren't biased towards the era they grew up in, and are able to gauge all eras objectively).

Personally I dont think the Beach Boys are greater than The Who, but to write them off as trivial certainly implies a lack of education on the history of rock & roll.

--------------
I admit to a lack of education on the history of rock & roll *after, say, 1972*. But a quick look back at my top 10 list is in order before you accuse me:
1. Chuck Berry
2. The Beatles
3. Little Richard
4. Bo Diddley
5. Elvis Presley
6. James Brown
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Bob Dylan
9. Smokey Robinson
10. Carl Perkins

Anybody on there you want to quarrel with? Anybody on there who isn't a giant in rock & roll history? Anybody on there whose impact and influence can be questioned?
Seriously, you think the Beach Boys rank higher than Buddy Holley? Ray Charles? Fats Domino? Jerry Lee Lewis? The Doors? Jimi Hendrix?

I sure don't. And, as Bruce was "kind" enough to point out, I was *there*.



I'd put them above Lewis, the Doors, and Jimi, yeah. Possibly above Holly or Domino, too--it's close.

And they're DEFINITELY ahead of Perkins. I love Carl Perkins, but it's not even particularly close.


Yes, Perkins is one of my all time favorites too, but he's nowhere near top ten of all time rock and rollers.

----------
Not in terms of popularity, but certainly in terms of influence. Just for starters, 3 other artists on that list were influenced by Perkins: Elvis, the Beatles, and the Stones.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:27 am 
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Bruce wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
4 - The Who


LOL.....I guess you missed this part:

This is NOT about your personal favorites. You are being asked to judge the hall of fame worthiness of each of the inductees.

You see The Who as more deserving than Dylan or the Stones?


In further defense of my lofty ranking of The Who, even the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame makes a point of mentioning that The Who are prime contenders for the title of World's Greatest Rock Band. So I don't feel they're out of place as the #2 rock band on my list.


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