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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
personally I think The Beatles' version of Matchbox is much better.



Must be Ringo's sensational vocal.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
The schmuck also claimed that the Rolling Stones did the best known version of "Route 66. " I guess he missed the legendary Nat King Cole version that is in the Grammy Hall Of Fame.


Yes, the bastard! How dare he claim a white version of a song is better than a black version of the same song? I guess he's another one that's been brainwashed by the "white noise".


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:

Quote:
Those Beatles versions of the three songs are not a pimple on the ass of Carl's versions of the same songs.


Classic Bruce here. :facepalm:
I know it's pointless to argue this because there is NO objectivity involved, but personally I think The Beatles' version of Matchbox is much better.


Well, as you say, which version is better is purely subjective. The *factual* part of what Starostin said, though, was clearly wrong: The Beatles didn't make Carl Perkins popular. Perkins' biggest popularity was with the massive success of "Blue Suede Shoes", which of course was before the Beatles even existed as a group. When Perkins did find some chart success again, it was on the country charts, where the Beatles' endorsement didn't mean anything. The Beatles may have made Perkins seem more historically important to a certain segment of music fans, but they didn't have much to do with his popularity.

Negative Creep wrote:
Quote:
This segment in his Fats Domino review tops it all.

Fats Domino wasn't actually a rock'n'roll performer. Most of the time, he was doing his stuff big band style, and his whole output reeks of jazz and jazz-pop more than anything else.

George Starostin is a fucking moron who knows nothing about early rock and roll.


Or maybe he just has a different definition of 'rock and roll'.


I'd say it's a pretty ridiculous definition if it excludes Fats Domino.

And, yes, there's no question objectively that The Searchers' version of "Needles and Pins" is better known than the Ramones', and Nat King Cole's version of "Route 66" likewise better known than the Stones'. The latter versions might be better known to a certain segment of "classic rock" fans, but calling them the more famous versions shows a real lack of perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Bruce wrote:
The schmuck also claimed that the Rolling Stones did the best known version of "Route 66. " I guess he missed the legendary Nat King Cole version that is in the Grammy Hall Of Fame.


Yes, the bastard! How dare he claim a white version of a song is better than a black version of the same song? I guess he's another one that's been brainwashed by the "white noise".


It was not a matter of "better," it was a matter of him not even knowing which was the best known version of the song. Just some Johnny Come Lately who was born in the 1970s who wants to write about music from before he was born, but doesn't want to put in the research first so he will have a fucking clue what he is talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:46 am 
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I think you are nit-picking and analyzing any little thing you can find, instead of just actually reading some of the more lengthy reviews by bigger artists.

As a reviewer, the guy is great. The way he breaks everything down by sections, years, etc.

Personally, when his reviews are so enthusiastic and detailed, I could really care less that he doesn't consider Fats Domino a "rock performer". He has that right to his opinion.
Doesn't make his actual reviews any less great, imo.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:10 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
I think you are nit-picking and analyzing any little thing you can find, instead of just actually reading some of the more lengthy reviews by bigger artists.

As a reviewer, the guy is great. The way he breaks everything down by sections, years, etc.

Personally, when his reviews are so enthusiastic and detailed, I could really care less that he doesn't consider Fats Domino a "rock performer". He has that right to his opinion.
Doesn't make his actual reviews any less great, imo.


A reviewer needs to know what he is talking about IMO.

The fact that he thinks that Fats Domino is jazz and not rock and roll is such an egregious error, that to me, he has zero credibility. He apparently does not know that the rock and roll genre started with music that was dominated by the sax and the piano. It was severral years before the guitar became the dominant instrument.

Even in the early 60s much of rock and roll was not guitar oriented. Huge artists like Chubby Checker and Gary US Bonds and Ray Charles were still featuring more horns and piano than guitar. Maybe he thinks that Chubby Checker was jazz too? That is, if he even knows who Chubby Checker is.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
I think you are nit-picking and analyzing any little thing you can find, instead of just actually reading some of the more lengthy reviews by bigger artists.


Um, it has nothing to do with "nit-picking." The fact is, those are just some examples to the many errors this idiot writes about. He injects so much subjectivity that it merely reads as a personal taste review piece that millions of other people could write about.

It is littered with inaccurate data, misspellings, and sheer ignorance.

Just a random selection where my cursor landed:

"Bill Haley (And The Comets) - Much too often mistaken for a rock'n'roll performer."
"Out of the songs, I particularly enjoy 'ABC Boogie', Haley's joyful and playful equivalent to Chuck Berry's grim 'Schoolday'"
"I think that Buddy tends to be a controversial figure - permanently overrated by the 'know-alls' and permanently underrated by the 'know-nothings'."
"Elvis is certainly not revered for his music"
"Yeah, Elvis is an untalented redneck, okay, so I admit it. But he's got a great pair of vocal cords"
Who do you think actually represented the Teenage Spirit of Rock'n'Roll in the Fifties? Chuck Berry? Nay, he was a bit too professional and laid back for that. Little Richard? Too gospelish and much too weird. Besides, both were black, and these were the Fifties. Elvis? Perhaps. But Elvis was a seriously manufactured figure, and he sold out in a minute. Nay, nay, nay; the true spirit of rock'n'roll resided in that curly-haired Southerner called Jerry Lee
"Little Richard was the first rock'n'roll performer"

Anyone who barely knows about '50s rock music past the standards (Elvis, Chuck, Little Richard, etc.)--and even there he fails--should not be assessing anything from this decade. Merely subjective and yet gets so many of the facts wrong as well.

This is like me writing an analysis of big World War II events with just lukewarm knowledge on the entire subject, providing misinformation, factual errors, and ignorance.

Quote:
As a reviewer, the guy is great. The way he breaks everything down by sections, years, etc.


There's nothing by Ray Charles or Jackie Wilson and a whole fat roster of other important artists.

Quote:
Personally, when his reviews are so enthusiastic and detailed


I think they're bland and some of the most atrocious shit I've read by a "professional reviewer."


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:02 am 
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Quote:
"Elvis is certainly not revered for his music"
"Yeah, Elvis is an untalented redneck, okay, so I admit it. But he's got a great pair of vocal cords"


Wow I never seen these before. I'd have to say George just lost a lot of credibility with me.
The comment about Elvis "selling out in a heartbeat" was equally laughable.

Still, I love reading his reviews for the artists that he DOES know a lot about.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Rick wrote:
Like to see the debut album by Moby Grape considered.
Here are a few reviews/opinions why.

Rate Your Music……….. one of the most acclaimed debut albums of all time



It's the #75 album of 1967 on Rate Your Music.

Here's some other reviews/opinions on the album, also from Rate Your Music........

This is one of the most disappointing albums I've ever heard. No psychedelia at all - just bogstandard 60s rock with a bit of soul. Avoid at all costs if you're looking for something trippy.

I love psychedelic music. So I have revisited this one many times over the years hoping that this time I'd discover its charm. No such luck.

I never really got this. Uninspired and amateurish. Most every band in a garage at the time churned out at least one song better than anything on this snoozefest. Give me pretty much anything else being released in 1967 over this.

Spotty, erratic, and poorly produced, but the songs are solid. "Omaha" is a classic.

"Omaha's" great. The rest....ugh. Hyped to death in '67. Lots on the table in '67.

A great example of how rock & roll went in the completely wrong direction.

Moby Grape's much heralded debut seems like a product of its time. In other words, I'm not really sure what it offers to today's listener other than a Grateful Dead-like rock pastiche. And as noted in my review of American Beauty, I don't find this type of rock terribly engaging. Though, if you're a fan of the Dead, Moby Grape would be a good band to check out.

The record is mostly mid tempo, slowing down for "8, 05" and "Naked, if I Want To." Moby Grape seems to mix psychedelic pop and some form of blues rock with harmonized vocals. The record oozes that late 60s, free love feel. "Come in the Morning" and "Omaha" sound similar to Derek and the Dominos, but not as well done. Overall, though, the problem is that the songs aren't all that noteworthy. Albeit short, each song seems to be a one-trick pony. Perhaps many listens of this album will uncover a deeper appreciation, but, on the surface, Moby Grape is not a special record.


I bought it based on its reputation years ago, and was underwhelmed to say the least. I think I listened to it once. Maybe I'll break it out and give it another shot.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Quote:
"Elvis is certainly not revered for his music"
"Yeah, Elvis is an untalented redneck, okay, so I admit it. But he's got a great pair of vocal cords"


Wow I never seen these before. I'd have to say George just lost a lot of credibility with me.
The comment about Elvis "selling out in a heartbeat" was equally laughable.

Still, I love reading his reviews for the artists that he DOES know a lot about.


Yeah, Trance and Bruce sure found a lot of terrible Starostin quotes. He only has The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Who and Bob Dylan in his top tier, though, so I love him for that.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:10 pm 
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I love the passion that he has for his favorites too.
Look at his review for Derek And The Domino's 'Live At The Fillmore'.
His review is basically what I would've wrote... :biggrin:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:18 am 
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Bruce wrote:
Maybe he thinks that Chubby Checker was jazz too? That is, if he even knows who Chubby Checker is.


Chubby Checker is a novelty artist.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:23 am 
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ClashWho wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Maybe he thinks that Chubby Checker was jazz too? That is, if he even knows who Chubby Checker is.


Chubby Checker is a novelty artist.


My fucking ass.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:53 am 
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So Bruce STILL isn't tired of getting owned by Clash? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:48 am 
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Bruce wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
Bruce wrote:
The schmuck also claimed that the Rolling Stones did the best known version of "Route 66. " I guess he missed the legendary Nat King Cole version that is in the Grammy Hall Of Fame.


Yes, the bastard! How dare he claim a white version of a song is better than a black version of the same song? I guess he's another one that's been brainwashed by the "white noise".

:snacks:
It was not a matter of "better," it was a matter of him not even knowing which was the best known version of the song. Just some Johnny Come Lately who was born in the 1970s who wants to write about music from before he was born, but doesn't want to put in the research first so he will have a fucking clue what he is talking about.


You guys are killing me here :butt: ...but as someone who actually travelled alongside the old route 66 all the way from Chicago to L.A....and took along a cassette with several renditions of that all time classic which I played along the way...Nat King Cole did the definitive version which encompassed the original intent and attitude Bobby Troup was looking for when he wrote the song. I also like Manhattan Transfers treatment of Route 66 and Mel Torme (the velvet fog) did a nice job. Personally...I thought the Stones version was quite unimpressive (nothing more than a non charting filler) and failed to elicit any cathartic effect of the song to the actual landscape.


Last edited by StuBass on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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