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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:49 am 
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StuBass wrote:
List is STARTING to take shape. More to be done IMO. Could use some more input (Ssoyd & gang...particularly hard rock, prog, and even you "metal" guys). Nice work Ariel. I'll get back on some of the other stuff.


How about moving Tim Bogert up? After looking at the list I think he belongs at least in the top 20.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:04 am 
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Am I the only one who thinks about Flea being way too high?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:40 am 
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Ssoyd wrote:
StuBass wrote:
List is STARTING to take shape. More to be done IMO. Could use some more input (Ssoyd & gang...particularly hard rock, prog, and even you "metal" guys). Nice work Ariel. I'll get back on some of the other stuff.


How about moving Tim Bogert up? After looking at the list I think he belongs at least in the top 20.


Agree Bogert could move up, but I'm not convinced he's top 20. Collaborated with some great musicians (Appice, Beck, et al) and some impressive bass work (Particularly with The Fudge). Post Fudge recordings not as notable as Vanilla Fudge stuff, but nice touring resume.


Last edited by StuBass on Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:49 am 
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D.J. wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks about Flea being way too high?


Not necessarily! Some people see Flea as the a great technician in slap/pop expanding and innovating the style to a slightly different genre (RHCP stuff) and give him huge props for popularity and impact, while others see Flea as this "neo" funk guy who just took a style and adapted it to his band while doing nothing much different than some of the other popular Funk players...just not in the same class as Graham or "Thunderthumbs" (Johnson). Depends on ones viewpoint.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:07 am 
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Ariel wrote:
StuBass wrote:
Ariel wrote:

I remember reading it on the old forum in the bass subforum. Glad to hear it's Larry.

...and yep, Wikipedia agrees. Awesome!

Was that in fact the first recorded slap performance ever?


Don't know if "Thank You" was the very first, but that song was certainly the "eye opener" for that new style which took off like a Space Shuttle post Sly.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:00 am 
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StuBass wrote:
D.J. wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks about Flea being way too high?


Not necessarily! Some people see Flea as the a great technician in slap/pop expanding and innovating the style to a slightly different genre (RHCP stuff) and give him huge props for popularity and impact, while others see Flea as this "neo" funk guy who just took a style and adapted it to his band while doing nothing much different than some of the other popular Funk players...just not in the same class as Graham or "Thunderthumbs" (Johnson). Depends on ones viewpoint.


He also is probably among the most influential bassists on the younger generation.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:13 pm 
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StuBass wrote:
List is STARTING to take shape. More to be done IMO. Could use some more input (Ssoyd & gang...particularly hard rock, prog, and even you "metal" guys). Nice work Ariel. I'll get back on some of the other stuff.


Thanks! We're gonna make this the best list on the site :-)

Ssoyd wrote:
How about moving Tim Bogert up? After looking at the list I think he belongs at least in the top 20.


He DEFINITELY needs to move up, and substantially at that. But alas, I am not familiar enough with his playing. Are there any particular songs I should check out on youtube right now to familiarize myself with his style? (Yes, I'm planning on buying Vanilla Fudge. It hasn't been at the used record store I frequent though, the last few times :-( it'll show up there eventually)

I should mention...has any of the non Vanilla Fudge bands he's been in been good, like Beck Bogert & Appice?

D.J. wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks about Flea being way too high?


Um...yes. Lol. Seriously though, I can't imagine him moving down. Ever. If anything he could easily jump all the way up to #8 probably. The problem with Flea is people know him for his slapping which is excellent but not what distinguishes him...it's his subtle melodic playing that distinguishes him more, and his general note placement. E.g. "Around the World", "The Zephyr Song", "Soul to Squeeze", etc. He's one of only a couple rock bassists ever I'd give a 10/10 to on creativity

StuBass wrote:
Ariel wrote:
StuBass wrote:
Ariel wrote:

I remember reading it on the old forum in the bass subforum. Glad to hear it's Larry.

...and yep, Wikipedia agrees. Awesome!

Was that in fact the first recorded slap performance ever?


Don't know if "Thank You" was the very first, but that song was certainly the "eye opener" for that new style which took off like a Space Shuttle post Sly.


Right. Thing is though, I just listened to it yesterday and MAN is it rudimentary...it's barely even identifiable as slap tbh. (Entwistle got a pretty similar tone/sound without slapping when he played aggressively and did string smacks for instance)

beaverteeth92 wrote:
StuBass wrote:
D.J. wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks about Flea being way too high?


Not necessarily! Some people see Flea as the a great technician in slap/pop expanding and innovating the style to a slightly different genre (RHCP stuff) and give him huge props for popularity and impact, while others see Flea as this "neo" funk guy who just took a style and adapted it to his band while doing nothing much different than some of the other popular Funk players...just not in the same class as Graham or "Thunderthumbs" (Johnson). Depends on ones viewpoint.


He also is probably among the most influential bassists on the younger generation.


I'd go as far as to say he's THE most influential bassist on young rock players of the last 20 years. I can't even think of a competitor really.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:16 pm 
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So...re Graham and the invention of slap...still trying to figure this out.

We all know Graham probably invented slap, but if "Thank You" is what his playing sounded like, then who expanded the slap style? To be fair his playing later solo and w Graham Central Station was far more sophisticated, but was there a different player who came in in between those two periods and expanded slap stylistically, or did Graham himself just do this over time?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Johnson. Which is why I think he deserves higher placement.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:47 pm 
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If what you're saying is true (and it's what Bassfreak said on the old forum), yea Johnson needs to jump up again (funny, since I just lowered him). What's your evidence though, if you don't mind my asking? I've had a hard time finding info on this online...the best 'evidence' I've found is by happenstance, an issue of Bass Player (shitty mag imo, but occasionally has interesting info) where Louis claims he came up with slap at the same time as Graham did (but was recorded doing it later), and was inspired by the guitarron (?) players in local (LA) Mariachi bands. I'm not sure what that means, but it sure sounds interesting!


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:14 am 
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Ariel wrote:
If what you're saying is true (and it's what Bassfreak said on the old forum), yea Johnson needs to jump up again (funny, since I just lowered him). What's your evidence though, if you don't mind my asking? I've had a hard time finding info on this online...the best 'evidence' I've found is by happenstance, an issue of Bass Player (shitty mag imo, but occasionally has interesting info) where Louis claims he came up with slap at the same time as Graham did (but was recorded doing it later), and was inspired by the guitarron (?) players in local (LA) Mariachi bands. I'm not sure what that means, but it sure sounds interesting!


A Guitarrón is a large 6 string acoustic Bass "guitar" played in Mexican Mariachi groups. I've never heard any players slap on one though. The are plucked with fingers and thumb. Maybe because they tend to pull the strings up from underneath to achieve more volume and punch rather than across the string. I'm guessing he tried it on electric bass and got the distinctive "pop" sound of slap and pop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14kRB9A ... re=related


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:19 am 
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Ssoyd wrote:
Ariel wrote:
If what you're saying is true (and it's what Bassfreak said on the old forum), yea Johnson needs to jump up again (funny, since I just lowered him). What's your evidence though, if you don't mind my asking? I've had a hard time finding info on this online...the best 'evidence' I've found is by happenstance, an issue of Bass Player (shitty mag imo, but occasionally has interesting info) where Louis claims he came up with slap at the same time as Graham did (but was recorded doing it later), and was inspired by the guitarron (?) players in local (LA) Mariachi bands. I'm not sure what that means, but it sure sounds interesting!


A Guitarrón is a large 6 string acoustic Bass "guitar" played in Mexican Mariachi groups. I've never heard any players slap on one though. The are plucked with fingers and thumb. Maybe because they tend to pull the strings up from underneath to achieve more volume and punch rather than across the string. I'm guessing he tried it on electric bass and got the distinctive "pop" sound of slap and pop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14kRB9A ... re=related


If this is true about Johnson then maybe they deserve the "blame" equally for the slap and pop technique. I say blame because I think it is an overused technique and as such has become a cliche'.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:16 am 
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Ariel wrote:

I'd go as far as to say he's THE most influential bassist on young rock players of the last 20 years. I can't even think of a competitor really.



How much influence did he have on professional bass players? I know about guys like Chancellor and Canal but I can't think of many others to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Ssoyd wrote:
A Guitarrón is a large 6 string acoustic Bass "guitar" played in Mexican Mariachi groups. I've never heard any players slap on one though. The are plucked with fingers and thumb. Maybe because they tend to pull the strings up from underneath to achieve more volume and punch rather than across the string. I'm guessing he tried it on electric bass and got the distinctive "pop" sound of slap and pop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14kRB9A ... re=related


That was a genuinely awesome video, what resonance, what tone! Wow.

Your guess is a well-reasoned one my friend. That sounds about right. It does *not* explain however Louis' claim that he developed a true autonomous slap+pop style independent of Larry Graham tho. In fact it doesn't even explain how he would have come up with slapping (not popping) independent of Graham. I strongly suspect bullshit on Johnson's part that he came up with a full real slap style independent of Graham. Inventing popping at the same time as/even possibly slightly before Graham though, entirely possible it seems...

Until I find real evidence of any kind that Johnson was the 'missing link' between "Thank You (Falettinme)..." and a more modern, developed slap+pop style like what Flea uses, Louis is staying in the lower teens. Who is this 'missing link' Ssoyd, any idea? Was it Graham himself, expanding the style after its inception?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:30 pm 
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D.J. wrote:
Ariel wrote:

I'd go as far as to say he's THE most influential bassist on young rock players of the last 20 years. I can't even think of a competitor really.



How much influence did he have on professional bass players? I know about guys like Chancellor and Canal but I can't think of many others to be honest.


Everyone, dude. All the rap metal and nu metal guys, pretty much every groovy fingerstyle player and all the slap players since the early 90s pretty much. Ryan Martinie, Sam Rivers, Tim Commerford all clearly betray Flea influence. Even Chris Squire says he loves Flea's playing in particular these days. Flea has for better or worse become the most famous slap player ever, and everyone who came of age in the 90s or later seems to learn slap primarily by listening to and being familiar with him. If Larry Graham indirectly influences all these modern slap guys, Flea DIRECTLY influences them, i.e. Graham invented (?) the slap and pop style but Flea is the famous modern user of it. I'd go as far as to say more bass players of ANY rock style even pickstyle punk dudes and so forth nowadays are influenced by Flea than not. Also Flea helped popularize the Stingray and its tone. And was the most influential person in bringing the carbon-based (not wood) neck to the masses and being its representative (late 90s/early 2000s signature model played on Californication and By the Way). He also did more to popularize nickel strings and their tone than any other modern player. He helped introduce the synth pedal to young musicians and bassists. Etc


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