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 Post subject: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Greatest Overtures and Preludes
1. Egmont, Op. 84: Overture – Ludwig von Beethoven
2. Le Nozze di Figaro, K 492: Overture – Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
3. Romeo and Juliet Overture – Peter Tchaikovsky
4. Hebrides Overture, in B Minor Op. 26 "Fingal's Cave" – Felix Mendelssohn
5. Academic Festival Overture in C Minor, Op. 80 – Johannes Brahms
6. Der Freischütz, J 277: Overture – Carl Maria von Weber
7. Tragic Overture, Op. 81 – Johannes Brahms
8. Tannhäuser: Overture – Richard Wagner
9. 1812 Overture, Op. 49 – Peter Tchaikovsky
10. Guillaume Tell: Overture – Gioacchino Rossini
11. Tristan und Isolde: Act 1 Prelude – Richard Wagner
12. Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg: Act 1 Prelude – Richard Wagner
13. Leonore Overture No 3 in C Major, Op. 72 – Ludwig von Beethoven
14. La Gazza Ladra: Overture – Gioacchino Rossini
15. Il Barbiere di Siviglia: Overture – Gioacchino Rossini
16. Oberon, J 306: Overture – Carl Maria von Weber
17. Coriolan Overture in C Minor, Op. 62 – Ludwig von Beethoven
18. Lohengrin: Act 3 Prelude – Richard Wagner
19. Parsifal: Act 1 Prelude – Richard Wagner
20. Fidelio, Op. 72: Overture in E Major – Ludwig von Beethoven
21. Don Giovanni, K 527: Overture – Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
22. Le Carnaval Romain Overture, Op. 9 – Hector Berlioz
23. Bartered Bride, Overture – Bedrick Smetana
24. Midsummer Night's Dream Overture, in E Major Op. 21 – Felix Mendelssohn
25. Die Zauberflöte, K 620: Overture – Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
26. La Scala di Seta: Overture – Gioacchino Rossini
27. Semiramide: Overture – Gioacchino Rossini
28. Russian Easter Festival Overture, Op. 36 - Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
29. Euryanthe: Overture – Carl Maria von Weber
30. Carnival Overture, Op. 92 – Antonin Dvorák
31. Benvenuto Cellini: Overture, Op 23 – Hector Berlioz
32. Russlan and Ludmilla: Overture – Mikhail Glinka
33. Le Corsaire Overture, Op. 21 – Hector Berlioz
34. Festive Overture – Dmitri Shostakovich
35. Cosi Fan Tutte – Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
36. La Forza del Destino: Overture – Giuseppe Verdi
37. Lohengrin: Act 1 Prelude – Richard Wagner
38. L'italiana in Algeri: Overture – Gioacchino Rossini
39. Der Fliegende Holländer: Overture – Richard Wagner
40. Creatures of Prometheus, Op. 43: Overture – Ludwig von Beethoven
41. La Traviata: Act 1 Prelude – Giuseppe Verdi
42. Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage – Felix Mendelssohn
43. Wasps Overture – Ralph Vaughan Williams
44. Manfred Overture – Robert Schumann
45. Rienzi: Overture – Richard Wagner
46. Leonore Overture No 2 in C Major, Op. 72 – Ludwig von Beethoven
47. Cockaigne Overture, Op. 40 "In London Town" – Edward Elgar
48. Idomeneo Overture – Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
49. I Vespri Siciliani: Overture – Giuseppe Verdi
50. La Traviata: Act 3 Prelude - Giuseppe Verdi


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:22 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:12 pm 
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List fails without Prelude to the Afternoon of a Fawn.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:21 pm 
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But that's not exactly a Prelude in the musical sense. It's more a symphonic poem inspired by the poem by Mallarmé of the same name (including the word "prelude").


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:00 pm 
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Oh okay then. I just wanted to clarify that.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:18 pm 
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very surprised the prelude to "tristan und isolde" is as low as it is... can anybody explain?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:29 pm 
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I found this to be a very hard list to do. It requires the comparison of stand alone pieces with pieces which are fragments of larger works, and the challenge was first to compare things which are parts of things, with whole works being easier to judge the importance of, and then compare those with whole works. So it's likely that this list has a lot of room for improvement.

Also this list is a revision of an older one, and I gave a certain deference to the earlier placements. Tristan is now #11, and it was #23 on the old list. The 2 overtures ahead of it are 2 of the best-known overtures, though I'm very uncertain that Tannhauser really belongs ahead of Tristan.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:27 pm 
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well i guess i should ask for the criteria first before asking questions or criticizing.
i wouldn't be surprised to learn that those two are more popular than tristan, but as far as its importance to music history, it seems to me that it might challenge any piece on this list. i guess it depends how you balance popularity with historical influence/importance and originality/quality as the criteria.

also, you mentioned that you did consider standalone pieces, after all, which means that "prelude to the afternoon of a fawn" would be eligible... is that right?

also, this is only for orchestral preludes and overtures, right? i think maybe you should specify that somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:03 am 
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I seriously don't know how you guys do these lists at all. I for one wouldn't be able to pull this off by any means. I mean you probably get an idea for the top 10-15 but going all the way to 50 and lower? Geez.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:15 pm 
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George wrote:
well i guess i should ask for the criteria first before asking questions or criticizing.
i wouldn't be surprised to learn that those two are more popular than tristan, but as far as its importance to music history, it seems to me that it might challenge any piece on this list. i guess it depends how you balance popularity with historical influence/importance and originality/quality as the criteria.

also, you mentioned that you did consider standalone pieces, after all, which means that "prelude to the afternoon of a fawn" would be eligible... is that right?

also, this is only for orchestral preludes and overtures, right? i think maybe you should specify that somewhere.

The list is based primarily on popularity and on esteem among musicians and students of classical music, with historical importance considered secondarily. It occurred to me a couple hours after I posted that my description of 1812 and William Tell was one-sided; they're popular, but are generally considered lightweight compared to most of the other highly ranked works.

Don-Alexei is right about prelude to the afternoon of a fawn. It's not really a prelude in the sense meant by this list; it's a symphonic (or tone) poem. It's on the tone poems list. The stand alone pieces I had in mind are mostly concert overtures. Admittedly, sometimes there's a fine line between a tone poem and a concert overture. Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet is a work that could have gone either way. I have given some consideration to merging this list with the tone poems list and dropping the overtures that are fragments of operas, but right now I don't plan to that.

These are orchestral overtures and preludes only. Overtures are generally orchestral; I don't know of any that aren't. So we didn't need to specify that the overtures were orchestral only, and in the context of "overtures and preludes" we thought it was understood that we meant preludes that are like overtures, and that we weren't referring to something like Chopin's Preludes.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:37 pm 
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Gosh I hand't seen that the Tristan und Isolde Prelude was so low. I don't know much about historical importance, but there is a "Tristan chord" so that must mean it was influential. I'm pretty sure it's popular too, there are bits of it in a few films I've seen.
*Also, Tristan und Isolde is technically the greatest opera on DDD's list, because it's second only to the Ring and 1st on Wagner's top 10, and the Prelude, with Isolde's Libestod, is a piece from Tristan very often performed in its own right. All in all, I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the top 5 on this list. (on a side note, it's also one of my favourtie pieces of classical music)


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:55 pm 
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I really like this performance but I swear there was a better audio quality version somewhere..



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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:34 pm 
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I've looked into the Tristan thing, and I think flipping in with Tannhäuser would probably be a good move. And when in doubt, it's usually good to show some balance between composers, so the putting the first Wagner ahead of the 2nd Brahms would also make sense, especially since I definitely think the Academic Festival Overture is more highly regarded than the Tragic Overture. The current arrangement of 7-11 is:

7. Tragic Overture, Op. 81 – Johannes Brahms
8. Tannhäuser: Overture – Richard Wagner
9. 1812 Overture, Op. 49 – Peter Tchaikovsky
10. Guillaume Tell: Overture – Gioacchino Rossini
11. Tristan und Isolde: Act 1 Prelude – Richard Wagner

Maybe this would be more like it:

7. Tristan und Isolde: Act 1 Prelude – Richard Wagner
8. Tragic Overture, Op. 81 – Johannes Brahms
9. 1812 Overture, Op. 49 – Peter Tchaikovsky
10. Guillaume Tell: Overture – Gioacchino Rossini
11. Tannhäuser: Overture – Richard Wagner


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:15 pm 
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Brian,


I'm a big Wagnarian. ( been to the Bayreuth festival a couple times while living in Europe) Don't you think Lohengrin or Parsifal should be ahead of Tannhauser which you placed at #8 ? King Ludwig of Bavaria or Cosima would certainly think so :clashwho: :tiphat: :tiphat:

No way that Lohengrin should be placed #37. Top 10 at least.

Also, I didn't see any from The Ring cycle ? At least one should be in there. Perhaps replace with Rienzi since that is hardley performed in the Wagner repertiour since it was not one of his mature and deveoped works.

But you gotta find room for one of the Ring Cycle opera's, Gotterdammerung perhaps ?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Overtures and Preludes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Africa,

First, I think Parsifal's placement is already pretty generous. It's in the top 20, and I think other Wagner overtures/preludes are more highly esteemed. And on Lohengrin, as you may have noticed, the Act 1 prelude is at #37, but the Act 3 prelude is at #18. I thought I should mention that since you just mentioned Lohengrin without specifying which.

The Ring is certainly hugely important, but is there any one overture or prelude from it that is important independently of the work as a whole?

On the lists I try to approach them in a balanced, objective way and rank things according to the general importance and acclaim for each work.


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