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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:01 pm 
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Like the Cardinals have had Pujols for a long time now and obviously he's amazing and I'm grateful he's been a Cardinal, but what was it like to have Barry Bonds on your team? Particularly when he went Ruthian?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:37 am 
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Mostly really cool with some not so cool.

I know this might come off as douchey but I kind of preferred watching the pre-steroid Bonds. Not because of any moral qualms - any doubts we had about the man and his performance were trumped hard by the knowledge that the rest of the league was full of similarly enhanced players, which was itself trumped harder by our disgust at the rest of the country's inability to recognize that obvious truth. No, it was partly because I was a little kid and everything is more amazing when you're 8 than when you're 16, and partly because it was, removed from the context of record chases, a more exciting brand of baseball he was playing in the 1990s. The guy fielded like Willie, ran like Rickey, and still hit 40-45 jacks a year. As the power numbers shot up around the league he was practically a throwback for a couple years.

Then of course he started juicing and turned into Godzilla. And sure it was fun rising to our feet every time the man walked toward the box. Obviously it was fun watching him hit home runs. It was even a marvel to watch how many balls he got to in LF after he lost his speed to age and sheer body mass, thanks to nothing but superb positioning based on what seemed like perfect knowledge of every hitter on every team in the National League. But while home runs are awesome they're not quite as awesome as everyone thinks, and watching him murder every pitcher with the balls to face him wasn't quite so thrilling as watching the guy who did everything better than everyone, and who could do any of those things at any time. With Mega Bonds you knew what you were getting. Walk, walk, home run, warning-track fly out, walk.

Man, did those walks suck. My worst Bonds memory is not the steroid mess, it's not him dismissing fans (which he did frequently but less consistently than was reported). It's certainly not him dismissing sportswriters, who I quickly grew to realize were largely petty talentless hacks who hated the games and athletes they covered. It's not even Bonds routinely failing to run out pop flies, which cost him extra-base hits on more than one dropped ball. No, my worst Bonds memory was all the fucking walks. I hated them because they were so deflating, because of the sense of despair that set in when we remembered that Armando Rios or Edgardo Alfonzo was hitting behind Barry ("protecting" him, ostensibly), because they dragged the game out. But most of all it was that after about midway thru 2001, when teams walked Bonds the PA system at Mays Field would play the fucking Chicken Dance and the ushers handed out rubber chickens for people to wave. When this became a thing they stopped handing them out and started selling chickens at every merch stand right next to the XL #25 jerseys. And people fucking bought them, and waved them around and around, 200 goddamn times a year. And they booed when he would get IBBed with a runner on second and nobody on first like it hadn't even crossed their minds it was possible let alone inevitable. I always hated sportswriters and out of town fans who complained that Giants fans were mindless Bonds boosters who ignored the steroids, the arrogance and everything else, or that they were yuppies who didn't know the game and only wanted to watch Barry smack dingers. Those fucking walks were the only time I thought they had a point.

My best Bonds memory is a tie. First there's the stretch run of the 1997 season when, after being denied the playoffs in 1993 despite 103 wins, and then after suffering through 3 losing seasons (2 in last place), we had a fucking miracle team (with the aforementioned JT Snow hitting 28 homers and winning Batman's love for all time; that's what I mean by miracle) that was tied with the Dodgers for first place when this game happened. (Even after the Series last year it's still the most fun I've ever had watching baseball and that's despite missing the first six innings because of school.) 12th inning, Brian Johnson homers for the sweep, puts us in first place for the first time in 49 months and the first man to greet him at the plate is selfish, aloof, non-team-guy Barry fucking Bonds. Then he gets on top of the dugout and starts pumping up the crowd and hugging the fans in the front rows. A week later when we clinched it was the same scene. Bonds on the dugout, Bonds in the stands, people going apeshit. I was at this one and we didn't leave for 20 minutes after it ended.

The other is in August 2003, right after Bobby Bonds died and Barry took a 4-game series off to come back for the funeral. The Expos swept all four. Barry returns to the lineup for the first game against Atlanta (again, I'm there) and goes hitless (2 walks, of course) but we somehow make it to extra innings. This was back when John Smoltz was closing for the Braves, and it was easily his best year as a reliever (finished with a 1.12 ERA). But because it's a tie and not a save opportunity Cox doesn't bring him in; I am audibly appalled and shout my mockery from the 38th row where obviously he and his relief ace Ray King can hear me.

"Just watch. Barry's up. You're gonna regret this one."

BAM. Splash hit. Game over. Barry points to the heavens and 42 thousand people know exactly why.

Two nights later, I'm watching on TV and again it's the tenth inning. Again Bonds is due up. Again Cox doesn't use Smoltz. Again - BAM. High, deep, outta here. Game over.

Sometimes home runs are even more awesome than everyone thinks.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:48 am 
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monga18 wrote:
Speaking of Giants I absolutely loathed 10 years ago. Imagine a team with these fucking scrubs, all having the worst season of their careers, and all doing it with regular or semi-regular playing time:

Russ Davis
JT Snow
Marvin Benard
Alan Embree (ERA: 11.25!)
Pedro Feliz
Shawon Dunston
Livan Hernandez

That team finished 2 games out of first place (thanks to Barry Bonds and Rich Aurilia). Man was that a frustrating year. Bill Mueller was off doing dick for Chicago but if we'd kept him instead of Davis and Feliz we'd have made the playoffs. If John Johnstone doesn't blow his arm out we don't give Alan Embree 20 innings and we probably win the division. I mean Christ.


didn't Nefi Perez (one of the worst hitters I've ever seen play) also make regular appearances for that team or was that later?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:51 am 
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monga18 wrote:
Mostly really cool with some not so cool.

I know this might come off as douchey but I kind of preferred watching the pre-steroid Bonds. Not because of any moral qualms - any doubts we had about the man and his performance were trumped hard by the knowledge that the rest of the league was full of similarly enhanced players, which was itself trumped harder by our disgust at the rest of the country's inability to recognize that obvious truth. No, it was partly because I was a little kid and everything is more amazing when you're 8 than when you're 16, and partly because it was, removed from the context of record chases, a more exciting brand of baseball he was playing in the 1990s. The guy fielded like Willie, ran like Rickey, and still hit 40-45 jacks a year. As the power numbers shot up around the league he was practically a throwback for a couple years.

Then of course he started juicing and turned into Godzilla. And sure it was fun rising to our feet every time the man walked toward the box. Obviously it was fun watching him hit home runs. It was even a marvel to watch how many balls he got to in LF after he lost his speed to age and sheer body mass, thanks to nothing but superb positioning based on what seemed like perfect knowledge of every hitter on every team in the National League. But while home runs are awesome they're not quite as awesome as everyone thinks, and watching him murder every pitcher with the balls to face him wasn't quite so thrilling as watching the guy who did everything better than everyone, and who could do any of those things at any time. With Mega Bonds you knew what you were getting. Walk, walk, home run, warning-track fly out, walk.

Man, did those walks suck. My worst Bonds memory is not the steroid mess, it's not him dismissing fans (which he did frequently but less consistently than was reported). It's certainly not him dismissing sportswriters, who I quickly grew to realize were largely petty talentless hacks who hated the games and athletes they covered. It's not even Bonds routinely failing to run out pop flies, which cost him extra-base hits on more than one dropped ball. No, my worst Bonds memory was all the fucking walks. I hated them because they were so deflating, because of the sense of despair that set in when we remembered that Armando Rios or Edgardo Alfonzo was hitting behind Barry ("protecting" him, ostensibly), because they dragged the game out. But most of all it was that after about midway thru 2001, when teams walked Bonds the PA system at Mays Field would play the fucking Chicken Dance and the ushers handed out rubber chickens for people to wave. When this became a thing they stopped handing them out and started selling chickens at every merch stand right next to the XL #25 jerseys. And people fucking bought them, and waved them around and around, 200 goddamn times a year. And they booed when he would get IBBed with a runner on second and nobody on first like it hadn't even crossed their minds it was possible let alone inevitable. I always hated sportswriters and out of town fans who complained that Giants fans were mindless Bonds boosters who ignored the steroids, the arrogance and everything else, or that they were yuppies who didn't know the game and only wanted to watch Barry smack dingers. Those fucking walks were the only time I thought they had a point.

My best Bonds memory is a tie. First there's the stretch run of the 1997 season when, after being denied the playoffs in 1993 despite 103 wins, and then after suffering through 3 losing seasons (2 in last place), we had a fucking miracle team (with the aforementioned JT Snow hitting 28 homers and winning Batman's love for all time; that's what I mean by miracle) that was tied with the Dodgers for first place when this game happened. (Even after the Series last year it's still the most fun I've ever had watching baseball and that's despite missing the first six innings because of school.) 12th inning, Brian Johnson homers for the sweep, puts us in first place for the first time in 49 months and the first man to greet him at the plate is selfish, aloof, non-team-guy Barry fucking Bonds. Then he gets on top of the dugout and starts pumping up the crowd and hugging the fans in the front rows. A week later when we clinched it was the same scene. Bonds on the dugout, Bonds in the stands, people going apeshit. I was at this one and we didn't leave for 20 minutes after it ended.

The other is in August 2003, right after Bobby Bonds died and Barry took a 4-game series off to come back for the funeral. The Expos swept all four. Barry returns to the lineup for the first game against Atlanta (again, I'm there) and goes hitless (2 walks, of course) but we somehow make it to extra innings. This was back when John Smoltz was closing for the Braves, and it was easily his best year as a reliever (finished with a 1.12 ERA). But because it's a tie and not a save opportunity Cox doesn't bring him in; I am audibly appalled and shout my mockery from the 38th row where obviously he and his relief ace Ray King can hear me.

"Just watch. Barry's up. You're gonna regret this one."

BAM. Splash hit. Game over. Barry points to the heavens and 42 thousand people know exactly why.

Two nights later, I'm watching on TV and again it's the tenth inning. Again Bonds is due up. Again Cox doesn't use Smoltz. Again - BAM. High, deep, outta here. Game over.

Sometimes home runs are even more awesome than everyone thinks.


Good shit.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:07 am 
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That's a good story for sure. For a couple years, John Smoltz just seemed untouchable as a closer (he was a great starter, but nearly perfect closer). I remember back in 2004, before Chase Utley was a big player (or starting), but when he was becoming a fan favorite, the Phillies were trailing by one with no one on, one out and a 0-0 count. With Smoltz, though, it felt like your team was down 5 with two outs and two strikes. Anyway, Utley was basically a rookie, but the one thing you knew is that he loved the ball down. Smoltz throws the ball at Utley's ankles on the first pitch and Chase turns on it and drives it over the wall. I just remember after the game Smoltz was still talking about how he couldn't believe Utley even made contact with that pitch.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:19 am 
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corrections wrote:
monga18 wrote:
Speaking of Giants I absolutely loathed 10 years ago. Imagine a team with these fucking scrubs, all having the worst season of their careers, and all doing it with regular or semi-regular playing time:

Russ Davis
JT Snow
Marvin Benard
Alan Embree (ERA: 11.25!)
Pedro Feliz
Shawon Dunston
Livan Hernandez

That team finished 2 games out of first place (thanks to Barry Bonds and Rich Aurilia). Man was that a frustrating year. Bill Mueller was off doing dick for Chicago but if we'd kept him instead of Davis and Feliz we'd have made the playoffs. If John Johnstone doesn't blow his arm out we don't give Alan Embree 20 innings and we probably win the division. I mean Christ.


didn't Nefi Perez (one of the worst hitters I've ever seen play) also make regular appearances for that team or was that later?


That was 2003-04. 2004 we finished a game behind the Dodgers in part because of a critical error by Cody Ransom, who moved up to 2nd string SS in part because Neifi was too shitty to allow anywhere near a close game down the stretch. So yeah.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:05 pm 
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FYI Bonds was just given a minimal sentence (2 years probation, community service, a pocket-change fine) in his perjury case. Here's a good take on it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:16 pm 
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monga18 wrote:
FYI Bonds was just given a minimal sentence (2 years probation, community service, a pocket-change fine) in his perjury case. Here's a good take on it.


Also 30 days home confinement which he is already appealing.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:42 am 
Bonds in trouble......no prison time but still something. He was my favorite player in the late 90's. Now I can care less. Cheater.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:20 am 
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http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5557:the-barry-bonds-case-isnt-over-but-there-are-50m-reasons-why-it-should&catid=68:jordan-kobritz&Itemid=156


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:26 am 
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Early Hall Of Fame vote tracking shows Larkin as a great bet to get in this year. Of the first 14 writers who have announced who they have voted for, 13 of them had Larkin on their ballot.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:33 pm 
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Me and my dad are going to cooperstown if he gets in this year. Hope so


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:47 pm 
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Also, where did you find people releasing their ballots?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:50 pm 
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Chemical Ali wrote:
Also, where did you find people releasing their ballots?


Last I looked he was up to 22 out of 24.

It's now up to 32 out of 39 for Larkin. Doesn't look like anybody else has much of a chance.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... n_US#gid=5


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Major League Baseball Players
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:11 pm 
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Its out of 37 from that chart, since the first two numbers are allotted for different reasons, but thanks none the less.

Also, he has 33, if all those 1's by his name are correct, votes not 32. So 33/37; not bad


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