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Pick 5
Poll ended at Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:02 pm
Mookie Blaylock 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Maurice Cheeks 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Walt Frazier 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
Derek Harper 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Dennis Johnson 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
KC Jones 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Jason Kidd 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
Slater Martin 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Chris Paul 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Gary Payton 28%  28%  [ 10 ]
John Stockton 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Rajon Rondo 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Norm Van Lier 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Jerry West 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
Lenny Wilkens 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 36
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 Post subject: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:02 pm 
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If you can't beat them, join them. I'm keeping Jerry West a PG to keep the continuity. If you don't like it, talk to the manager.

Mookie Blaylock
Maurice Cheeks
Walt Frazier
Derek Harper
Dennis Johnson
Jason Kidd
Slater Martin
Chris Paul
Gary Payton
John Stockton
Rajon Rondo
John Stockton
Norm Van Lier
Jerry West
Lenny Wilkens

Let me know if you think any of these guys are more deserving than any other: John Stockton, Quinn Buckner, Chris Paul, anyone else? Don't pick someone to remove that you've never heard of (Slater Martin should be here). Would anyone say Alvin Robertson was more of a SG?


Last edited by pgm on Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:23 pm 
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Don't know how good defensive win shares are, but they say that Stockton is the #2 defensive point guard.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

15. Jason Kidd 70.23
20. John Stockton* 64.93
41. Bob Cousy* 50.46
46. Gary Payton 48.85
57. Magic Johnson* 45.23
61. Walt Frazier* 44.47
71. Dennis Johnson* 42.67
73. Maurice Cheeks 42.62
89. Isiah Thomas* 39.53
93. Guy Rodgers 38.59
94. Mookie Blaylock 38.53
95. Terry Porter 38.47
98. Jerry West* 37.94


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:57 pm 
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I think they're something worth looking at, but have a long way to go. Most of those guys were quite known for their defense, with the exceptions of Bob Cousy and Guy Rodgers (both ball-handling guys). They're also both before reliable defensive information, though. Cousy's best years were with Russell (never in the top 10 before), though. Rodgers had Chamberlain and Thurmond behind him, but one of his best years was in Chicago (1967) and their center was no one special.

Question: I don't know if you remember Alvin Robertson very well, but would you call him a PG or a SG in his prime? I know he was short, but I think he played SG for at least part of his career. I'm too young to remember, and he's the type of player who lands right in my blindspot. I have a basketball card for him, though (it just calls him a guard).

If he's more a SG, I may put Stockton into Robertson's place. Re-voting is allowed, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.

Edit: I'm going to call Robertson a SG unless someone tells me he was more a PG.


Last edited by pgm on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:07 am 
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pgm wrote:
I think they're something worth looking at, but have a long way to go. Most of those guys were quite known for their defense, with the exceptions of Bob Cousy and Guy Rodgers (both ball-handling guys). They're also both before reliable defensive information, though. Cousy's best years were with Russell (never in the top 10 before), though. Rodgers had Chamberlain and Thurmond behind him, but one of his best years was in Chicago (1967) and their center was no one special.

Question: I don't know if you remember Alvin Robertson very well, but would you call him a PG or a SG in his prime? I know he was short, but I think he played SG for at least part of his career. I'm too young to remember, and he's the type of player who lands right in my blindspot. I have a basketball card for him, though (it just calls him a guard).

If he's more a SG, I may put Stockton into Robertson's place. Re-voting is allowed, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.


Robertson was a 2 guard, as was Fat Lever who also had tons of steals.


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:09 am 
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It didn't start uintil the 68-69 season, but here's the history of the NBA all defensive team:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:12 am 
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Bruce wrote:
pgm wrote:
I think they're something worth looking at, but have a long way to go. Most of those guys were quite known for their defense, with the exceptions of Bob Cousy and Guy Rodgers (both ball-handling guys). They're also both before reliable defensive information, though. Cousy's best years were with Russell (never in the top 10 before), though. Rodgers had Chamberlain and Thurmond behind him, but one of his best years was in Chicago (1967) and their center was no one special.

Question: I don't know if you remember Alvin Robertson very well, but would you call him a PG or a SG in his prime? I know he was short, but I think he played SG for at least part of his career. I'm too young to remember, and he's the type of player who lands right in my blindspot. I have a basketball card for him, though (it just calls him a guard).

If he's more a SG, I may put Stockton into Robertson's place. Re-voting is allowed, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.


Robertson was a 2 guard, as was Fat Lever who also had tons of steals.


Thanks a lot. Lever also had a lot of triple doubles, which tends to be a PG trait.


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 am 
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pgm wrote:
Bruce wrote:
pgm wrote:
I think they're something worth looking at, but have a long way to go. Most of those guys were quite known for their defense, with the exceptions of Bob Cousy and Guy Rodgers (both ball-handling guys). They're also both before reliable defensive information, though. Cousy's best years were with Russell (never in the top 10 before), though. Rodgers had Chamberlain and Thurmond behind him, but one of his best years was in Chicago (1967) and their center was no one special.

Question: I don't know if you remember Alvin Robertson very well, but would you call him a PG or a SG in his prime? I know he was short, but I think he played SG for at least part of his career. I'm too young to remember, and he's the type of player who lands right in my blindspot. I have a basketball card for him, though (it just calls him a guard).

If he's more a SG, I may put Stockton into Robertson's place. Re-voting is allowed, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.


Robertson was a 2 guard, as was Fat Lever who also had tons of steals.


Thanks a lot. Lever also had a lot of triple doubles, which tends to be a PG trait.


I think at least one of them was with points-rebounds-steals rather than points-rebounds-assists.


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:45 am 
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Payton was a beast on D


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:15 am 
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john17 wrote:
Payton was a beast on D


Yes he was, but most of you apparently are to young to know that much about Walt Frazier, who was easily in the top three on this list. He was first team all defense for the first 7 years that it was chosen, and his stats back that up according to defensive win shares.

Payton and Frazier should be the top two choices here.


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:45 am 
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Bruce wrote:
Payton and Frazier should be the top two choices here.


Agreed. I'd rank them as Payton, Frazier, West then (probably) Dennis Johnson or Van Lier.


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:21 pm 
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There weren't many people Jordan had a hard time scoring on


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 pm 
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john17 wrote:
There weren't many people Jordan had a hard time scoring on


The Pistons held him down in the playoffs a couple of times. They would even put Rodman on him.


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:19 pm 
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GP by far. look at the guys Frazier was guarding, its not really fair. he wouldn't stand a chance against guys like KJ or Tim Hardaway at their peak. GP was the total package on defense. there isn't a guard in history he couldn't go against.


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:30 pm 
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pave wrote:
GP by far. look at the guys Frazier was guarding, its not really fair. he wouldn't stand a chance against guys like KJ or Tim Hardaway at their peak.


He did fine against Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Nate Archibald at his peak, Maravich, Lenny Wilkens, Earl Monroe, etc.....


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 Post subject: Re: Best defensive PG
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Don't know how good defensive win shares are, but they say that Stockton is the #2 defensive point guard.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

15. Jason Kidd 70.23
20. John Stockton* 64.93
41. Bob Cousy* 50.46
46. Gary Payton 48.85
57. Magic Johnson* 45.23
61. Walt Frazier* 44.47
71. Dennis Johnson* 42.67
73. Maurice Cheeks 42.62
89. Isiah Thomas* 39.53
93. Guy Rodgers 38.59
94. Mookie Blaylock 38.53
95. Terry Porter 38.47
98. Jerry West* 37.94


A career longevity on a strong defensive team.

Payton
Kidd
West


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