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Vote for the 5 greatest hitters of all time:
Poll ended at Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:03 pm
Hank Aaron 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Barry Bonds 20%  20%  [ 10 ]
Dan Brouthers 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ty Cobb 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
Jimmie Foxx 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Lou Gehrig 10%  10%  [ 5 ]
Rogers Hornsby 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Mickey Mantle 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Willie Mays 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
Stan Musial 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Albert Pujols 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Babe Ruth 18%  18%  [ 9 ]
Tris Speaker 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Honus Wagner 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ted Williams 20%  20%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 51
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 Post subject: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:03 pm 
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Barry Bonds
Lou Gehrig
Rogers Hornsby
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams

Tough to leave Musial and Mantle out.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Location: Iowa.
Hank Aaron
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams
Willie Mays
Barry Bonds


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:16 pm 
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1. Ruth
2. Bonds
3. Williams

These top 3 are a given (with Ruth a given at the top). You could put Bonds and Williams in either order for me. I went Bonds for peak awesomeness but Williams clearly has an argument and you could give him a bonus for non-use of PED and more difficult strike-zone and make up for Bond's non-diluted league.

The next two were harder. In the end I went Gehrig and Hornsby

4. Gehrig
5. Hornsby

Mantle is probably next up for me. I eliminated Wagner and Cobb for era specific reasons. Also eliminated Mays and Aaron as I find them to have been more accumulators due to hanging on (in comparison to the others on this list). I came close to including Pujols. Musial has a good case.

Btw what is the nonsense where Bonds has 5 votes and Ruth 4?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:16 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Barry Bonds
Lou Gehrig
Rogers Hornsby
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams

Tough to leave Musial and Mantle out.


Is that your order?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:18 pm 
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I am almost positive that he just went down the list, tying the people he voted for in order, nothing to do with whom he thinks is the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:28 pm 
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corrections wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Barry Bonds
Lou Gehrig
Rogers Hornsby
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams

Tough to leave Musial and Mantle out.


Is that your order?


B-G-H-R-W

Alphabetical


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:56 pm 
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corrections wrote:
Also eliminated Mays and Aaron as I find them to have been more accumulators due to hanging on (in comparison to the others on this list).


Meaning what specifically? Mays was a 6.5 win player at age 40, so it's not like he was a drag on his teams (Giants won the division that year, and Mays led the team in WAR, though Bobby Bonds was a close second). I won't check Aaron now but I figure the same is likely true (and the Braves won their division in 1969 when Aaron was getting up there in years). If you mean "down somewhat from their peaks" obviously that's the case but if they're still performing at an all-star level I don't think you can really hold the fact that they didn't fall apart as quickly as Ruth, Hornsby etc against them.

My ranking of the list, with my votes starred:

Ruth*
Bonds*
Williams*
-----
Mays*
Mantle*
Gehrig
-----
Cobb
Aaron
Pujols
Musial
Hornsby
-----
Foxx
Speaker
Wagner
-----
dan what the fuck 19th century faggot brouthers


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:18 am 
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monga18 wrote:
dan what the fuck 19th century faggot brouthers


No respect for the pioneers. If Brouthers was around today he would beat you to a pulp for that comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:11 am 
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Posts: 2906
ruth
williams
bonds
gehrig

have to think about #5 for a bit


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:24 am 
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Location: I AINT PLAYIN NUGGA
Ruth
Bonds
Williams
Mantle
Mayz


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:07 am 
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http://baseballsgreatesthitters.com/Ret ... ctive.html
an arcane formula is used though


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:28 am 
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rockvirtuoso wrote:
http://baseballsgreatesthitters.com/Retired_and_active.html
an arcane formula is used though


First of, they never tell you what this big formula is, and secondly, any metric that uses batting average as a big part of it is useless.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:10 am 
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monga18 wrote:
corrections wrote:
Also eliminated Mays and Aaron as I find them to have been more accumulators due to hanging on (in comparison to the others on this list).


Meaning what specifically? Mays was a 6.5 win player at age 40, so it's not like he was a drag on his teams (Giants won the division that year, and Mays led the team in WAR, though Bobby Bonds was a close second). I won't check Aaron now but I figure the same is likely true (and the Braves won their division in 1969 when Aaron was getting up there in years). If you mean "down somewhat from their peaks" obviously that's the case but if they're still performing at an all-star level I don't think you can really hold the fact that they didn't fall apart as quickly as Ruth, Hornsby etc against them.

My ranking of the list, with my votes starred:

Ruth*
Bonds*
Williams*
-----
Mays*
Mantle*
Gehrig
-----
Cobb
Aaron
Pujols
Musial
Hornsby
-----
Foxx
Speaker
Wagner
-----
dan what the fuck 19th century faggot brouthers


What I mean is that their OWAR totals are elevated by the length of their careers. If you look at OPS+ (which I do think is the better measure for this list) Mays and Aaron are way down the list. I'm interested as to why you dumped Hornsby so far down (and behind Cobb of all people).

And Aaron played 7 years after 1969 a 7.1 OWAR year (well last was only a half season). In the next 7 seasons he had one 7.3 Campaign in 1971 but had only 2 others above 4. His last 3 years 2, .1, .4. Mays had two partial years at the end of his career where his OWar was 2.2 and 0 (granted both were short seasons for him). He also had random years of lesser effectiveness offensively (4.1 in 1967, 3.7 in 1969). To add to this Mays best OWAR year was 1965 at 9.7. This isn't even top 50. Giambi and A-Rod both have better top seasons (although Pujols does not). Aaron has one better season. Ruth has 9, Hornsby 5 (plus his 6th is tied with Mays best), Gehrig 5 (plus his 6th is tied with Mays best). Bonds 4, Williams 4, Mantle 4, Cobb 4, Wagner 2, Musial 1, Foxx 1, Speaker 1. Mays only has 2 total in the top 100. In OPS+ Mays only has one season in the top 150. Ruth 13, Bonds 9, Cobb 9, Williams 8, Hornsby 7, Gehrig 6, Mantle 5, Foxx 4, Pujols 3, Wagner 3, Speaker 2, Aaron 1, Musial 1

Now mind you I would still put Mays ahead of Cobb, Wagner, Speaker, Foxx, and Aaron (for era related and other reasons although the dominance of Cobb's numbers look pretty good). He'd be closer with Musial and Pujols and maybe ahead of both (appears I overvalued Musial). He can't possibly be ahead of Gehrig, Hornsby, or Mantle for me. Peak value is just too much higher for all of those guys.

Edit: Also note Giambi and Manny both have two OPS+ top 150 seasons (not that one additional season makes much of a difference).


Last edited by corrections on Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:11 am 
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Bruce wrote:
rockvirtuoso wrote:
http://baseballsgreatesthitters.com/Retired_and_active.html
an arcane formula is used though


First of, they never tell you what this big formula is, and secondly, any metric that uses batting average as a big part of it is useless.


Which probably explains red flag Johnny Damon in the top 200.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Hitters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:15 am 
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Posts: 3574
Hard to choose

Ruth
Williams
Cobb
Bonds
Musial
--------
Mantle
Mays
Gehrig
Aaron
Hornsby


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