Brett Alan wrote:
Machine Head wrote:
oh yeah the beatles, if you look at songs like I saw her standing there, I want to hold your hand ,come together , revolution, back in the usa, one after 909,get back, roll over beethoven,etc, yeah those are dylanesque right
He's talking about their later career, eg. Sgt. Pepper's, Revolver, etc. Their early stuff takes a cue from Berry, sure, but Buddy Holly was way more influential on the Beatles than Berry was.
and rock n roll by led zep yeah that was all dylan right there totally went away from that chuck berry sound, as mc5 back in the usa cover and american ruse their own original song , as well the sound of the ramones,punks biggest band , sounds exactly like dylan, berrys sound totally was extinct by the 70's , hendrix cover of johnny b goode, was played bob dylan style too.
See, now you're the one getting worked up by the lists. Dylan has more influence than Berry, doesn't mean that Berry's style died after Dylan or that Berry's songs were never covered. Bringing up a bunch of short, guitar-driven rock and roll songs/covers by other famous artists doesn't help your point and it doesn't bring down Brett Alan's.
was redone ina dylanesque kinda way, even guys like the stooges that song raw power, just that guitar is so clearly bob dylan , even buddy hollys oh boy, the way he strums the guitar verses and the tempo, it was inspired by dylan before he came out, and even something like welcome to the jungle , I mean the way it starts with a guitar riff as an intro then fades in the rest of the band its sounds so similiar to something chuck has done like brown eyed handsome man ,same can be said for you shook me all night long and highway to hell by ac dc , 19th nervous breakdown by the stones using a guitar riff an intro its probaly no big deal for those records though, cuz for the rest of those records you hear that dominate bob dylan influence,right, even in a bob dylan song like obviously 5 believers ,and tombstone blues sound like those guitar riffs are something bob dylan thought up on his own, Im sure he didnt get that from chuck but from his own creative genius,right.
I know you're getting your panties in a knot because people are daring to question your beloved Chuck Berry, but this paragraph is ridiculous. Did you even pay attention to what Brett said or are you just bringing up guitar-based songs and trying to claim that it's all Chuck?
one after 909 was later beatles , get back was later beatles , revolution was later beatles, come together was later beatles, back in the ussr was later beatles , even im so tired so chuck berry esque was later beatles.
Actually, "One After 909" was early Beatles from a songwriting standpoint. It was written in 1963, and recorded at that time, but not used. They redid it for Let It Be but that's not when they wrote it.
"Revolution" is much more influenced by Dylan than by Berry. "Come Together" was influenced by both. "I'm So Tired"--how is that "Chuck Berry esque AT ALL? I think that's very Dylan-influenced. Sure, some of the later songs were influenced by Berry, but I don't know that "Get Back" (or, for that matter, "I Want To Hold Your Hand" or even "I Saw Her Standing There") were specifically influenced by Berry. "ISHST", for example, is more Little Richard than anything else. (And I hope I don't have to explain why including "Roll Over Beethoven" as an example of the Beatles' songwriting was ridiculous.)
There are Beatles songs that are very clearly influenced by Dylan--"You've Got To Hide Your Love Away", "Nowhere Man", and "The Fool On The Hill", for example. Perhaps more importantly, Dylan pushed them in a general way to explore new avenues, especially lyrically. Yes, their music was very strongly rooted in 50s rock at the start, and yes, those roots always remained an important part of their sound. And, yes, Berry was part of that foundation--but so were Leiber/Stoller, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, and others.
those short guitar driven rock songs sound like they were written in a style similiar to wait for it......chuck berry , anyone who takes the guitar uses it for an intro riff then brings the rest of the band into the song is taking as song writing trick from chuck berry ,
That's not really a songwriting trick. It's more of a production trick.
I know you AOR guys hate giving credit to any non white pre AOR or post AOR musician, but the world wont end if you give a little credit to chuck berry for his blatant contributions, I promise your favorite AOR songs wont sound worse if you do.
Know what you're talking about. There are definitely some folks around here with that bias, but I'm not one of them. I've spent a lot of time arguing for higher placements on lists for Berry, Ray Charles, Aretha, and so on and so on. I've taken a lot of crap for putting Run-DMC in the top ten of one of my lists, and responded by putting Biggie in the top twenty to boot. I *love* Chuck Berry. And I think he's unquestionably among the greatest songwriters in rock history. But Dylan is even greater.
I could respond to your list of random examples ("Rock And Roll" by Zep doesn't sound like Dylan) with an equally random list (yeah, listen to Leonard Cohen, feel the Chuck Berry vibe), but what would be the point?
I know about the original one after 909 it was written prior to 1963 it was released in 1963 sounding like chuck berry ,really revolution with its guitar intro and choppy rhythm thats a chuck influenced 50s style song, listen to you cant catch me , the line here comes old flat top came from there the way the verses are sung by lennon he got from chuck berry not dylan for come together, in fact I can see that same song influencing bob dylans tombstone blues, get back has chucks rockabilly rhythm and guitar lead licks thru out whole song ,as for I saw her standing there check out talking to you , the bassline is ISHST, you never even listened enough to chuck berry , anyone who follows him can hear the influence clear as day,its chuck not little richard, listen to too much monkey business sounds like subterrianian homesick blues, it was a forerunner to subterrian , bob dylan himself said so, wow you have never even heard berry apart from probaly 3 songs, you are not even qualified to rank him, buddy hollys oh boy influenced by chuck berry, and back in the usa was inspiration for back in the ussr the beatles themselves said so, surfin usa by the beach boys is sweet little sixteen ,brian wilson himself said so. chuck had a huge influence on the beach boys as well, not so much dylan, the stones hugely influenced by chuck , more so than dylan, and dylan himself was influenced by chuck NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. The ramones were heavy influenced by chuck too, the stooges ac/dc and mc5 ,just the fact that chuck influenced BOB Dylan and not the other way makes it hard for dylan to rank ahead of him, as for popularity more people are covering chuck songs,like back in the usa, and johnny b goode, than things like desolation row and visions of johanna, Its questionable if that singer songwriter crap james taylor , and joni mitchell were doing is even considered rock, its certainly not more rock than punk.
way to exaggerate dylans influence , paul did not get fool on the hill influences from dylan ,with those simple lyrics, and that emphasis on melody (bob was never that intricate or focused on melody , he put his emphasis on lyrics) I am the walrus is dylan inspired for sure.
your ignorance is showing again, chuck was the rock n roll song writer , elvis put rock on the map , chuck was its song writer in the 50's
what!?, do you play instruments have you ever written a song ,? a production trick is overdubbing ala les paul , or wall of sound ala phil spector, thats a songwriting , you aor guys ignore and the musical aspect or dismass and only emphasis lyrics, we are not arguing greatest lyricists though, if anything the musical aspect is way more important, case in point mas que nada is in portuguese and charted well over here, dispite people not knowing the words, hmm I suppose you think the beatles starting songs off with choruses are production tricks too.
you dont know enough about any of the 50' artists , I know what it is now, its ignorance and biased on your part, I will be arguing for the everly brothers next, I dont expect you to chime in that debate at all.
heres the point , chuck berry wrote the standard rock n roll song, so even if indirectly influenced an artist or a song ,he gets the credit becuase chances are the group that artist was influenced by was influenced by chuck
and btw acclaim isnt that big of a landslide as you think
Of all the early breakthrough rock & roll artists, none is more important to the development of the music than Chuck Berry.
He is its greatest songwriter, the main shaper of its instrumental voice, one of its greatest guitarists, and one of its greatest performers.
Quite simply, without him there would be no Beatles, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Bob Dylan, nor a myriad others.
There would be no standard "Chuck Berry guitar intro," the instrument's clarion call to get the joint rockin' in any setting.
The clippety-clop rhythms of rockabilly would not have been mainstreamed into the now standard 4/4 rock & roll beat.
There would be no obsessive wordplay by modern-day tunesmiths; in fact, the whole history (and artistic level)
of rock & roll songwriting would have been much poorer without him. Like Brian Wilson said, he wrote
"all of the great songs and came up with all the rock & roll beats." Those who do not claim him as a
seminal influence or profess a liking for his music and showmanship show their ignorance of rock's development
as well as his place as the music's first great creator. Elvis may have fueled rock & roll's imagery, but Chuck Berry was its heartbeat and original mindset.
John Lennon said it best, "If you were going to give rock & roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'."
Like Brian Wilson said, he wrote
"all of the great songs and came up with all the rock & roll beats.
Chuck Berry’s vast contribution to the music world is reflected in the plaudits he has won from many of the most well known artists who followed him. As a songwriter, guitarist and performer, he shaped rock and roll and has more than earned his place in the Top 5 of the Rolling Stone list of The Immortals. In 2004 six of his songs found their way onto the magazine’s list of The 500 Greatest Songs
More than any other artist, Chuck Berry cook up the basic recipe for rock 'n roll. It started with the beat: Keith Richards, who should know, has dubbed Berry 'rhythm supreme'. The he created the archetypal electric guitar riff, on which all succeeding riffs are based. He even came up with rock's basic lineup- 'Piano, guitar, bass and drums is rock 'n' roll, says the Wallflowers Jacob Dylan referring to Berry's seminal combo. This disc contains 30 classic songs. The most extensive single disc ever of his greatest hits. Includes every top 10 hit recording from 'Maybellene' to 'Johnny B Goode', to My-Ding-A-Ling'. MCA. 2006.
Robert ChristgauRobert Christgau
Robert Christgau is an American essayist, music journalist, and self-proclaimed "Dean of American Rock Critics".
Theodore Anthony "Ted" Nugent is an American guitarist, musician, vocalist, and activist. From Detroit, Michigan, he originally gained fame as the lead guitarist of The Amboy Dukes, before embarking on a lengthy solo career...
said "If you don't know every Chuck Berry lick, you can't play rock guitar.
so with chuck winning influence and popularity and dylan win acclaim but not in a landside and just the sheer fact that chucks song writing impacted and influenced dylan while NOTHING dylan did influenced chuck, hmm that gives chuck the edge and higher ranking over bob dylan.