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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:34 pm 
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Destroyer wrote:
There needs to be Mastodon on there for one of those years. The Blackening by Machine head could be on the 2007 list but I don't know if it meets the criteria. It was highly praised though as one of the very best metal albums of the decade.


Crack the Skye has been mentioned as a contender for the 2009 list. Looking at my list, if I had to include it, i'd put it in place of "Sigh No More". Maybe "The E.N.D." if we can't reach a consensus on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:49 pm 
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The End should be replaced by something else, maybe the Resistance or YYYs


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:08 pm 
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chicken sandwich wrote:
Brett Alan wrote:
chicken sandwich wrote:
but The End got zero acclaim, actually most reviews pegged it as an atrocious album. The album has no lasting appeal.


That's a ridiculous exaggeration. It certainly got a good deal of negative reviews, but it got positive reviews from Rolling Stone and Entertainment Weekly, among others.

This means nothing, Rolling Stone also gave Nickelback's Dark Horse a 3.5 review and that album is genuinely terrible. Rolling Stone isn't a very good arbiter of album quality.


So the standard you're proposing is "acclaim from reviewers who agree with me"? Can you see the problem with that?

You said it got zero acclaim. You were wrong. Some reviewers liked it. At least one respected and important (if sometimes controversial) reviewer loved it.

I'm not trying to convince you it's a good album. But *on the critieria* it ranks very, very high. Its popularity is so far ahead of most of these albums that I have trouble seeing how any of them can catch it at this point. (I say at this point because no album from 2009 has had all that much influence yet. Ten or twenty years from now something else might prove to be extremely important.) And, again, it's got a lot of influence and impact, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:54 pm 
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The E.N.D. easily beats The Resistance in popularity, and I don't think ther's any part of the criteria where The Resistance clearly beats The E.N.D. So if this is true, The E.N.D. has to be ahead of The Resistance.

Fearless is from 2008. I think it's country anyway.

I've only been able to think of one album that no one has mentioned yet that I think might have a shot at the list: It’s Not Me, It’s You by Lily Allen. It went 3x platinum in the UK, and was #22 on Village Voice's Pazz & Jop poll for 2009.

I looked up the US & UK certifications for the albums that have been mentioned. It's possible that I missed 1 or 2 certifications, but I doubt it. Below are the certifications for the albums that look to me like the 12 strongest candidates for the list, listed in approximate order of popularity:

The E.N.D. - Black Eyed Peas: US 2x platinum, UK 4x platinum
Sigh No More - Mumford and Sons: US platinum, UK 4x platinum
Lungs - Florence + The Machine: US gold, UK 4x platinum
The Blueprint 3 - Jay-Z: US platinum, UK platinum
No Line on the Horizon - U2: US platinum, UK platinum
21st Century Breakdown - Green Day: US platinum, UK platinum
It’s Not Me, It’s You - Lily Allen: UK 3x platinum
BLACKsummers'night - Maxwell: US platinum
Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix – Phoenix: US gold
Merriweather Post Pavilion - Animal Collective: UK silver
It's Blitz - Yeah Yeah Yeahs: UK silver
Veckatimest - Grizzly Bear: UK silver

Sales required for each level in the UK are: Silver 60,000; Gold 100,000; Platinum 300,000. The only other albums that have been mentioned with any certification are Dave Matthews with US platinum; and Springsteen, Pearl Jam, Kid Cudi, and Muse with US gold. Muse is also 2x platinum in the UK. But I think Muse and Matthews have little going for them besides popularity, and the other 3 don't have enough acclaim to justify a top 10 spot with their fairly modest popularity. I doubt any album should make the top 10 on critical acclaim alone, especially since the most acclaimed album of the year, Merriweather Post Pavilion, has a bit of popularity to go along with its acclaim, and so wouldn't be making it on acclaim alone. Phoenix, YYY, and Grizzly, all mentioned above, are also among the year's most acclaimed albums.

It should be noted that it sometimes happens that albums are undercertified, and there may be cases where chart numbers indicate that an album is more popular than what its certification shows. So if that's the case with any of these albums, some of what I said may require adjustment.

2009 is a tough year to do, because there's so little agreement between popularity and acclaim, and it's too recent for it to be possible to credit much influence to any album.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:24 am 
Can we just pretend Nickelback doesn't exist? My 2 year old nephew can already play all of their songs.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:41 am 
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Maybe these 2 lists will help.

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best-albums-of-2009

http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/Current/2009a.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:40 pm 
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Muse has some acclaim, but they're a progressive rock group. Artists in that genre only manage acclaim retroactively.

Out of that list Brian made, how does this look?
1. Florence + The Machine - Lungs
2. Green Day - 21st Century Breakdown
3. Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion
4. Jay-Z - The Blueprint 3
5. U2 - No Line On the Horizon
6. Black Eyed Peas - The E.N.D.
7. Phoenix - Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix
8. Mumford & Sons - Sigh No More
9. Lily Allen - It's Not Me, It's You
10. Maxwell - BLACKsummers'night

I picked the Florence for #1 because it has the best combination of popularity, acclaim, a tad of influence, and that ever important "snob appeal" that everyone that doesn't frequent the list forums seeks so much

Lily Allen is one of those British pop artists that don't have alot of success in the US outside of the "alternative" set (c.f.: Duffy, Kate Nash). Until this year, Adele fell into the same category. Allen, however did have a medium size hit in the US with "The Fear" from "It's Not Me" and she has acclaim, so I can see her making the bottom of the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:05 pm 
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I think that is better. However, I would move Green Day and U2 down, and move Maxwell up. I'd definitely put Green Day below Jay-Z and U2, who are similar in popularity, but more acclaimed I think. And I think Maxwell beats Green Day in acclaim by a big enough margin to overcome whatever small advantage Green Day may have in popularity.

XX by The XX should be added to that list of 12 albums that I posted yesterday, because it went platinum in the UK in addition to being highly acclaimed. The reason I missed it yesterday is that the search engine requires that you put a space between the 2 X's.

It's hard for me to figure exactly where each of these albums to me, but taking your newest list and making adjustments on those issues where I do have an opinion, I'd suggest something like this:

1. Florence + The Machine - Lungs
2. Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion
3. Jay-Z - The Blueprint 3
4. Black Eyed Peas - The E.N.D.
5. Phoenix - Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix
6. Maxwell - BLACKsummers'night
7. U2 - No Line On the Horizon
8. Mumford & Sons - Sigh No More
9. Green Day - 21st Century Breakdown
10. Lily Allen - It's Not Me, It's You

I think XX and/or Grizzly Bear could replace Lily Allen and/or Green Day.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:16 pm 
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why is Green Day on this list? Come on guys, that album was awful there's no way that's a top 10 album. And really, U2? Also Merriweather Post Pavilion should be the glorified #1.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:24 pm 
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"That album was awful" is an opinion. Going by the criteria, Green Day does well in popularity, and got some acclaim. Ditto for U2, except that it got a little more acclaim. That being said, I don't think Green Day has to make the list. I could see XX or Grizzly Bear replacing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:12 pm 
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Brian wrote:
I think that is better. However, I would move Green Day and U2 down, and move Maxwell up. I'd definitely put Green Day below Jay-Z and U2, who are similar in popularity, but more acclaimed I think. And I think Maxwell beats Green Day in acclaim by a big enough margin to overcome whatever small advantage Green Day may have in popularity.

I think XX and/or Grizzly Bear could replace Lily Allen and/or Green Day.


Actually, I accidentally switched the places of Green Day and U2 on my list, although for me both "No Line on the Horizon" and "21st Century Breakdown" fell off my radar really fast, at least compared to the very successful albums that had preceded both.

Between The XX and Grizzly Bear, I see The XX being the better choice. That album won the Mercury Music Prize, one of the most coveted music awards in Great Britain and Ireland.

Chicken Sandwich: Don't get me wrong, I hated the last Green Day album, but my personal opinion shouldn't be a factor in the list. It wouldn't be a list for music overall if it featured 10 indie rock albums, would it?


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:05 pm 
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DDD should be better than to conform to whats popular and what society considers to be a good album, am the only one who thinks these lists should be generated by the community's opinion? I mean these are "our" lists, just like how Pitchforks top 10 albums list is much different than Entertainment Weekly's top 10 album list. I understand Green Day and the Black Eyed peas albums sold big numbers but I really don't think that says anything about the albums quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:27 pm 
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chicken sandwich wrote:
DDD should be better than to conform to whats popular and what society considers to be a good album, am the only one who thinks these lists should be generated by the community's opinion? I mean these are "our" lists, just like how Pitchforks top 10 albums list is much different than Entertainment Weekly's top 10 album list. I understand Green Day and the Black Eyed peas albums sold big numbers but I really don't think that says anything about the albums quality.


Community opinion lists is what Wanta's Treefingers lists are. We make a list of our favorite songs/albums etc. and he compiles them by how popular they are into lists.

I don't think anyone has every brought up hosting such lists of "forum favorites" on the main site. You're gonna have to ask Lew about that, but I don't think that a list based exclusively on the personal opinions of a small group would do well in traffic.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:22 am 
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chicken sandwich wrote:
I understand Green Day and the Black Eyed peas albums sold big numbers but I really don't think that says anything about the albums quality.


It says more about it then does the personal opinion of a few dozen people around here.


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 Post subject: Re: Top Ten Rock Albums Of Each Year - 2000-2009
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:37 pm 
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I'll go further now than I did before and say that I think XX should probably replace Green Day on the proposed '09 list. I think XX and Lily Allen could be in either order at 9 & 10.


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