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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:38 pm 
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why - because he's the greatest martial artist who ever lived
(though anderson may be equaling him, and gsp has a chance, too)

more reasons why - because he is the best sambo practitioner in the world, maybe the best judo practitioner, has maybe the best punching power outside of boxing, has an immense submission and wrestling game, because his mental game is without equal, his stamina, his personality, his sincerity, his magnanimity, and his spirituality.

which fights to watch....
-the first Nogueira fight (make sure you listen to the commentary, too, where analysts question the sanity of some unknown pudgy russki readily diving into the guard of the best bjj heavyweight alive who had submitted everyone he'd ever fought before, and where he officially takes over the mantle of most fearsome fighter alive)
-the Cro Cop fight (this, along with the big nog trilogy, are considered by many if not most analysts and intelligent fans as the greatest modern mma fights)
-his 30 second annihilation of Tim Sylvia (fedor's last dominant victory before he turned into a religious nut which threw his in-fight game plan and psychology out the window)
-the Kevin Randleman fight (because it has to be seen to be believed)
-Hong Man Choi (ditto)
-Ogawa (how not to disrespect your opponent and get your comeuppance)

all his fights are worth watching... if you understand martial arts they're all immensely exciting spectacles of genius at work, just like anderson and gsp... even his losses are exciting (though i've watched each one exactly once since i don't have the heart to see them again), but watch those last, if you have to.

despite what that clown dana white and his legion of drooling neanderthals toot, virtually of fedor's opponents were either undefeated when he met them, were top 10 (and in many cases #2) ranked heavyweights or light heavyweights, were olympic martial art medalists, and/or top-level K1 fighters.
(also as i've noted several posts above, note the weight difference between him and most of his opponents - he is a very small heavyweight, in fact he weighs less than most light heavyweights today - and he is one the very few fighters, along with mirko, who don't believe in cutting weight out of principle)

finally, what all recent mma fans are missing is the amazing atmosphere of the pride events, which i don't think will ever be equalled (though i was pleased to hear ufc will conduct a show at saitama next year). it's like being in a theater. there's a hush... gasps and applause when a fighter makes a move or when the audience recognizes a submission move being attempted... (not like in american shows where people just yell incessantly like savages)

(also, the emelianenko brothers have the best entrance music ever, imho; they're the #1 and #2, in whatever order)


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:51 pm 
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here's the first Nogueira fight...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8d8yd ... drig_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8d96j ... drig_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8d9fp ... drig_sport

(all of fedor's fights used to be on youtube in their entirety, it looks like they've been taken down)


highlight videos (which should always be taken with a grain of salt)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20-o3pIqRlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVrNOQtlzY

also this guy is a very good analyst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-0GqZWgJZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzqh8eP9c4o


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:45 am 
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George wrote:
why - because he's the greatest martial artist who ever lived
(though anderson may be equaling him, and gsp has a chance, too)

more reasons why - because he is the best sambo practitioner in the world, maybe the best judo practitioner, has maybe the best punching power outside of boxing, has an immense submission and wrestling game, because his mental game is without equal, his stamina, his personality, his sincerity, his magnanimity, and his spirituality.

which fights to watch....
-the first Nogueira fight (make sure you listen to the commentary, too, where analysts question the sanity of some unknown pudgy russki readily diving into the guard of the best bjj heavyweight alive who had submitted everyone he'd ever fought before, and where he officially takes over the mantle of most fearsome fighter alive)
-the Cro Cop fight (this, along with the big nog trilogy, are considered by many if not most analysts and intelligent fans as the greatest modern mma fights)
-his 30 second annihilation of Tim Sylvia (fedor's last dominant victory before he turned into a religious nut which threw his in-fight game plan and psychology out the window)
-the Kevin Randleman fight (because it has to be seen to be believed)
-Hong Man Choi (ditto)
-Ogawa (how not to disrespect your opponent and get your comeuppance)

all his fights are worth watching... if you understand martial arts they're all immensely exciting spectacles of genius at work, just like anderson and gsp... even his losses are exciting (though i've watched each one exactly once since i don't have the heart to see them again), but watch those last, if you have to.

despite what that clown dana white and his legion of drooling neanderthals toot, virtually of fedor's opponents were either undefeated when he met them, were top 10 (and in many cases #2) ranked heavyweights or light heavyweights, were olympic martial art medalists, and/or top-level K1 fighters.
(also as i've noted several posts above, note the weight difference between him and most of his opponents - he is a very small heavyweight, in fact he weighs less than most light heavyweights today - and he is one the very few fighters, along with mirko, who don't believe in cutting weight out of principle)

finally, what all recent mma fans are missing is the amazing atmosphere of the pride events, which i don't think will ever be equalled (though i was pleased to hear ufc will conduct a show at saitama next year). it's like being in a theater. there's a hush... gasps and applause when a fighter makes a move or when the audience recognizes a submission move being attempted... (not like in american shows where people just yell incessantly like savages)

(also, the emelianenko brothers have the best entrance music ever, imho; they're the #1 and #2, in whatever order)


fedor's striking ability was, in my opinion, by far the most effective part of fedor's game. the fluidity, the power, the accuracy and the different positions he could land punches was unreal. and then simultaneously he could submit and out wrestle anyone. such a complete, sharp fighter. something that has to be seen.

and dana white's a tallywacker. the ufc completely ruined heavyweight mma.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:34 am 
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If you can get a hold of Pride 25 imo its one of the best mma events ever and it contains fedor's fight with nogueira (arguably his best performance ever along with the cro cop fight) and also has dan henderson, quinton jackson, anderson silva, kazushi sakuraba, antonio rogerio nogueira fighting on the card.

Quote:
and dana white's a tallywacker. the ufc completely ruined heavyweight mma.


I disagree with that, i mean cain vs junior dos santos and brock vs overeem are probably two of the most exciting heavweight matchups around and the ufc has put on some great heavyweight fights like kongo/barry, randy/sylvia, randy/nog, brock/carwin and mir/brock 1. The ufc has also brought up cain velasquez and junior dos santos who are two of the most brilliant heavyweights to ever compete. The old pride hw division was the most exciting back in the day but the ufc has put on some good fights too. I do agree that dana white is a goober :lol:

Also in other news nick diaz pissed away his chance at fighting gsp for the title by not showing up to the press conference and now carlos condit has stepped in to replace him :facepalm: I really hope they dont cut him (even though he deserves it) since hes one of the most exciting fighters ive ever seen, the best outcome would be if he fought bj instead which would be a fight of the year candidate but that might be wishful thinking at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:53 pm 
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the ufc's had some good heavyweight fights. velasquez might be the best heavyweight they've brought up. i know it's tricky to get into comparisons and start looking at hypotheticals..you know like 'oh how good would these guys be at the height of pride?' but the quality of pride and excitement and atmosphere that george mentioned earlier isn't matched by the ufc which pretty much busted up that group of guys fighting each other. maybe it was the octagon or maybe it was fertitta's conning pride after the buyout or dana white being an all around asshole to anyone who didn't come to the ufc after the buyout. either way, 2007=the end of great heavyweight mma.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Those old PRIDE fights with Cro Cop and Minotauro and of course Fedor have a surreal vibe. When I watch Fedor v. Minotauro or Fedor v. Cro Cop and others of course I feel it in my body that I'm watching two grandmasters at their sport. Those three in particular were my fave PRIDE heavyweights and I honestly think the fact that each of them are humble stoic and non-English speaking (well, not as their primary language anyway) added to that surreal aura. In a way, some of the fights between those guys were enlightening in some way that I can't quite articulate; I always come away refreshed and almost like you feel after watching an old non-English, multi-faceted, highly philosophical black and white film or something, as opposed to traditional Hollywood style.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:36 am 
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kosherrock wrote:
fedor's striking ability was, in my opinion, by far the most effective part of fedor's game. the fluidity, the power, the accuracy and the different positions he could land punches was unreal. and then simultaneously he could submit and out wrestle anyone. such a complete, sharp fighter. something that has to be seen.
i agree that he is a complete fighter, but disagree that his striking is by far his most effective facet... i think that's just the memory of his last three wins which he accomplished with brilliant striking, but before that, he had won almost all of his fights through submissions.


so, this is my theory on fedor's downfall...

(little of this will make much sense unless you've followed fedor or know a bit about him)

-in addition to fedor being such a complete fighter, his greatest strength had always been his mental game, his spiritual centeredness, and his psychology. his nickname, "the last emperor", was given to him for a reason...

-fedor had always lacked aggression, jealousy, feelings of inadequacy, need to show off or prove a point. he never made faces or appeared angry. even when he punched or went for submissions, his facial expression never changed. he never jumped or shouted or beat his chest. he always won with absolute humility and magnanimity.

-fedor contained within him a dialectic of the deepest kind, the kind of dialectic that can be gleaned in only the greatest practitioners of eastern martial arts, men who are not merely great fighters or athletes, but philosophers, psychologists, and masters of their mind and body.

-his disinterestedness (i'm using the religious term here, because it applies) meant that he never panicked and had total awareness of the situation at all times. when fujita caught him, he wobbled but as he was wobbling he automatically went into counterattack and finished off fujita. when randleman suplexed him, he collected himself and seconds later submitted kevin. these were the two biggest adversities he had faced (before his downfall), and the way he handled them speaks volumes of his awareness and collectedness.

-the big change happened around 2009. during the post-fight interview after his fight with arlovsky, he said that his victory was the victory of russian orthodox church and that it was thanks to all the people who prayed for him. an idiotic thing on several levels. (so if he loses, the loss would also be attributed to the russian orthodox church?!?) ...but, whatever, at that point it could be let go as his peculiarity that shouldn't necessarily change anything about him as a fighter. (btw his translator did not translate that part into english, i think he knew he had to present that comment more diplomatically in english)

-the fight with brett rogers is basically a copy of the arlovski fight, with his opponent seeming to have the slight edge throughout the fight before fedor brilliantly finds the split-second opening and accomplishes a one-punch knockout. (in arlovski's case it was a pure mental gaffe to attack fedor with the flying knee so carelessly after being so in-control up to then; in rogers's case, he exposed himself as he was taking a swing at fedor; fighters are most vulnerable as they prepare to attack; fedor saw the opening and amazingly landed the KO punch before brett's hands could even reach him)

-the post-fight interview is the same thing, however. he again attributes his victory to the prayers of the russian orthodox faithful. this was to be his last victory.

-key point: right before his fight with werdum, he was personally blessed by patriarch kirill (the russian orthodox version of the catholic pope). very, very big deal.

-what happens during the fight: fedor comes out swinging and brawling. maybe he really catches wedrum, or maybe werdum fakes it and the fall is a conscious bluff to trap his prey (my guess is both, but ultimately the latter). fedor loses his mind and recklessly jumps into werdum's guard to "finish him off". werdum easily catches him in a double whammy submission hold (very clearly explained in the gracie breakdown).

-this is simply an amateur mistake. he had never done something so foolish before - this is a very experienced fighter who is arguably he greatest sambo practitioner ever and a world-class judoka. this is someone who lived and thrived in the guard of one minotauro nogueira (for a total of 34 minutes over 3 fights), the top heavyweight bjj in the world (and werdum is an exact replica of minotauro in every way, just younger). this was obviously a mental gaffe and a psychological lapse of immense proportions. the mistake was believing that victory was his. that because the patriarch himself personally blessed him in addition to all the usual prayers, it was his fate to win, and that all he had to do was come out and swing his arms until the referee stopped him. he believed in this fate when he saw werdum falling down, and he believed all he had to do was land a few extra punches to finish him off, totally disregarding werdum's world-class ground game (or whether werdum was actually really hurt at all). and that's all she wrote.

-the mma world is in shock. almost everyone (myself included, at the time) chalks it up to pure luck on werdum's part and a extremely rare mental lapse for fedor.

-next comes a very different sort of animal in big foot silva. where he lacks in the skill and cunning of werdum, he makes up with size and his hundred pound jaw. the tactic for vintage fedor would be obvious - dance with him a little, look for the opening, use sambo/judo to take him down and latch on a submission or maybe ground-and-pound.

-right before the fight, fedor takes out a huge wooden cross and kisses it. this is the "patriarch kirill" of this fight... a good-luck amulet that has now come to replace his brilliant inner game and dialectic of a great warrior.

-fedor spends the first round trading punches and basically brawling with this man who outweighs him by almost 60 lbs. it is absolutely idiotic... but fedor's skill advantage is enough to offset silva's reach advantage.

-second round: right as the opening bell rings, silva charges at him like a bull and easily takes him down, without any resistance at all. vintage fedor would have seen that coming from a mile away. this fedor had entrusted his fate to a religious fetish, and was mentally checked out. the rest of the round is spent with a 285 lb man on top of him raining down punches. to fedor's credit, most men would have long lost their will to continue to fight, with a broken orbital bone and nasty enormous hematoma that entirely shut his right eye and a generally busted up face... he actually attempted a leg lock as the seconds were winding down, though it was totally futile. unbelievably, he was actually getting ready to come out for round 3 in such state, before the ringside doctor ordered to stop the fight.

-during the post-fight interview, he says that he felt something was wrong with him from the beginning of the fight. well, no $#!t...

-so, after he lost to a lucky/cunning opponent first, then to a monstrous brute... he had no more external excuses against dan henderson, an all-time great fighter who was nevertheless smaller than him, older than him, and nowhere near as skilled as him.

-fedor's in-game plan was again to mindlessly brawl and hope for the best. needless to say, karma was not on his side, and he got caught by the H-bomb. ~fin~

here's the moral of the story. his skill set is as great as ever and he is as complete a fighter as ever. his striking power and accuracy are probably better than they've ever been. yes, he's had some injury issues, but he both said he felt great, and he actually looked like he was in great shape for the hendo fight. here is what changed - his mental game is gone. his increasing involvement with the russian orthodox church has made him believe he would win fights before they started, and this meant he was mentally checked out before he entered the octagon precisely because he lost that brilliantly harmonious inner dialectic he used to posses during his entire fighting career. by this i mean the patience and the wisdom of knowing when to attack and when to defend, the dialectic synthesis of those two concepts into one (as demonstrated in the fujita fight, for example), the complete awareness of the situation at all time. all these things have been clearly absent in his last three fights.

it is also worth noting that he had dominated the world sambo championship for many years and was undefeated for a long time. his streak ended also in 2008 (to young stud blavoi ivanov, who has since also turned to mma). i won't speculate on the circumstances or the reasons for this loss, but it's interesting that it was his last matchup before the arlovski date, a fight where he took out his russian orthodox prayer guns for the first time, which signaled the beginning of the end for the greatest mma fighter...


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Paulie wrote:
Those old PRIDE fights with Cro Cop and Minotauro and of course Fedor have a surreal vibe. When I watch Fedor v. Minotauro or Fedor v. Cro Cop and others of course I feel it in my body that I'm watching two grandmasters at their sport. Those three in particular were my fave PRIDE heavyweights and I honestly think the fact that each of them are humble stoic and non-English speaking (well, not as their primary language anyway) added to that surreal aura. In a way, some of the fights between those guys were enlightening in some way that I can't quite articulate; I always come away refreshed and almost like you feel after watching an old non-English, multi-faceted, highly philosophical black and white film or something, as opposed to traditional Hollywood style.


unfortunately european porn doesn't give off the same vibe, though. i'm always irritated that there's never any subtitles. sorry if that ruined a good post...but i feel ya, paulie.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:09 pm 
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George wrote:


oh, also the strikeforce card this saturday is excellent (despite fedor and 'reem not even making the heavyweight tournament semis). i'm particularly interested in the roger gracie vs mo lawal matchup.




This is definitely a Strikeforce event worth checking out. With the exception of the Diaz -vs- Daley event which will be extremely tough for Strikeforce to match, this has got to be the best card they've put on this year. It certainly would have been better though if Overeem was present as well as Mousasi as originally planned but I'm not complaining. The loss of Overeem is worth it just for the simple fact he's in the UFC now.

I really think Cavalcante -vs- Palacio should be on the main card instead of Healy -vs- Blanco though, especially considering Josh Thomson pulled out of the bout, but atleast it'll be shown on HDNet. (Thanks Mark Cuban!). Cavalcante is a favourite of mine but I have real interest in seeing his opponent Yoel Romero Palacio. He is a former Olympic silver medalist (wrestling) and by all indications his boxing is absolutely amazing (his brother and closest training partner is Yoel Pablo Hernandez - a boxing champion). I've seen video of this guy doing effortless one handed ankle picks on 250+ pound men! Palacio is only 4-0 at the age of 34 which is quite old to start your MMA career but this guy is a true athlete who is in top condition. The word athlete gets thrown around alot in MMA, but this guy is truly one of the few real athletes in the sport. This guy could be a professional in a wide variety of sports and activities and that capability and versatility is what make a true athlete. Personally I can't wait to see this guy and it seems like a no-brainer to have him on the main card against another animal and proven finisher in Rafael Cavalcante. This is the sort of fight that screams fight-of-the-night.

The middleweight title fight is the real jewel of this card in my eyes though, despite the fact it's barely been talked about. Jacare is one most crucial guys from Strikeforce that the UFC needs to acquire asap. I think this guy if put into the UFC today could work his way to a title shot pretty quickly and he definitely would stir up the division. It's only a matter of time but I'm extremely eager to see him in there. This guys' jiu-jitsu is amongst the best in the world and every time out his striking is becoming finer and finer and he's beginning to really bring some agression. Not to mention the croc' walk he does when he gets a victory is sweet. If I was capable of doing it I'd walk down the streets like that all the time and bite people! I know people are down on the fight because who is Luke Rockhold right? He's not a known commodity and he's still hasn't reached his full potential (in my eyes) but I think he's going to open some eyes tonight and give Jacare much more of a fight than anyone expects. I'm not saying he'll win necasarily, but I think he'll prove to be a formiddable opponent at the very least.

The heavyweight tournament is obviously the main draw though and I'm definitely digging those fights too. Another very accomplished wrestler in Daniel Cormier will take a big step up in competition when he takes on Antonio Silva and the always controversial Josh Barnett will put it on the line with heavy handed boxer Sergei Kharitionov. I think the latter fight will be pretty cut and dry with Barnett securing a fight ending submission at some point in the match. Kharitonov obviously has power and the striking abilty to take Josh out but Josh is just too saavy, hungry, and capable to allow that to happen. This fight should put him one step closer to getting back into the UFC where he'd be a welcome addition (along with alot of other heavyweights from Strikeforce). And I think Daniel Cormier could be another breakout star at this event. Antonio Silva has a well rounded developing game and his ability to implement his tools effectively at his size makes him a tough fight for any person but Cormier despite his soft appearance is an athletic dude for the weight class and his wrestling will be very capable come fight time, even against a man the size of Silva. I don't think it'll be a terribly exciting fight if Cormier manages the win, but I think he's more than capable of it.

Lastly, the King Mo -vs- Gracie fight is a must see for me. Will Roger be the next Gracie to really get people's attention or will Lawal take the first step back to reclaiming his title? It's a tough stylistic matchup, I'm just not sure who's favour it will fall into. I just hope Mo does his best to stay off the floor and stay away from the takedown despite the fact he's been openly claiming he'll take him down all day. He seems like a guy with alot of pride so I think he might not be bluffing, but it's the only real way I see him losing so I pray he keeps away from it. Gracie is a killer grappler and submission artist and I fear if it gets to the mat he'll snag a submission in quick time.


Peace fellas, enjoy the fights.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:48 pm 
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NateDizz wrote:
And I think Daniel Cormier could be another breakout star at this event.
and you were absolutely right, nate.
if you had told me that cormier would be coming out of the fedor/reem/werdum/silva half when the tournament began, i'd have called you crazy. i still think barnett should take him in the final, but i'm very impressed with the young fella already.

also i was shocked by the rockhold win because i didn't really know anything about the guy, and jacare to me was probably the #2 middleweight in the world. this turns the division upside down. i'm guessing rockhold fights kennedy next - that will be an awesome matchup.

bad night for the three brazilians.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:14 am 
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Good call on Cormier nate, id only seen him fight monson and he did look pretty good but it was...monson. I thought Bigfoot would outmuscle him in the standup but cormier has crisp boxing, looking forward to seeing him fight more. Hes tiny for a heavyweight too, apparently he has kidney issues which prevent him from cutting weight. Barnett will have a tough time with him for sure, barnett's striking isn't really his strong suite and i dont see him taking cormier down.

Awesome KO from Feijao, kind of a weird fight but that high kick/spinning back fist combo was wicked almost cung le esque. Was expecting Roger to lose, i dont see him beating him anyone who can stop him from taking them down. The only way i saw him winning that was if he pulled guard or if Mo got cocky and shot for a takedown, his stand-up is practically non existent.

Anyone else notice how empty it was there? I think Strikeforce is on its last legs, they have some good fighters but they've lost all their biggest names (Diaz, Arlovski, Fedor, Reem, Mayhem, Shields) and the guys they have left will make their way over to the UFC in a short time i believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:41 pm 
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How did you guys score the middleweight title fight last night? I had it scored 48-47 for Jacare myself but it was definitely a close fight and by no means do I think he was robbed or anything of that nature. I think he clearly won the 1st and 2nd rounds, Luke won the 3rd and 5th rounds, and the 4th was a toss-up that I see in Souza's slight favour. Judge Bruce Snell's 50-45 was ludicrous though and just another highlight of terrible judging in the sport. Ditto on Rockhold -vs- Kennedy being a nice fight and definitely the most apporpriate. Where Jacare goes from here, I have no idea.

I know it's definitely not what most wanted in the finals, myself included, but it's what I expected prior to the semis last night. I listened to an hour long radio interview with Cormier on Sherdog and that segment alone pretty much convinced me that he would win that fight. Just hearing his whole story and the different things he's been through and the way he carries himself it became almost obvious to me he couldn't lose this fight. In one hour he pretty much convinced me he's capable of beating the best. Cormier -vs- Barnett should be a real battle.

I'm happy that Cavalcante and King Mo got some wins last night too, their a couple of my favourites at lightheavyweight and as was mentioned by someone above, I hope these guys along with the rest of the top guys in Strikeforce will find their way to the UFC sooner than later. As soon as the UFC absorbs Strikeforce and incorporates the flyweight division they will be at their absolute peak as a company with Bellator being their main threat and it's hardly one at all. We'll see how Bellator transitions onto Spike but I don't think it'll take on in any similar fashion to the UFC. Personally I'm pumped about the prospects of nearly all the top fighters being in the same pool fighting each other.




What's up next? I try to just go one event at a time because there are always so many going on it's hard to keep up. Fight Night 25 is next weekend and is worth checking out. Definitely not a great card - there's really only two fights on the card that catch my interest but Ellenberger -vs- Shields is a must see fight for anyone just based on Shields' status in the division and the sport. He might not be terribly exciting to watch ala Jon Fitch, but the fact still remains that he's one of the very top fighters in MMA regardless of weight class. If Ellenberger can upset him that adds another very worthy challenger to GSP in a division that is really starting to heat up with hot contenders such as Carlos Condit and potentially Ellenberger and Diaz should they win their respective fights. It seems like the prospects of Silva -vs- St. Pierre are getting further and further away. Now that I think about it though, if Ellenberger and Diaz lose, which is definitely feasible, then all of a sudden the division isn't looking so ripe is it? Haha.

The only other fight I have my eye on is Koch -vs- Brookins. He might not finish it but I think this fight should be all Erik Koch and I hope they continue to bring him up at a decent pace like they have been thus far. If brought up right he could be a future title challenger.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:28 am 
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I think Ellenberger could pull an upset on Shields, Ellenberger is a beastly wrestler (anyone else surprised at how massive some welterweights are these days?) with KO power which is the worst type of matchup for shields. Shields can beat anyone if takes em down though, i think his reputation as a boring fighter is somewhat unfair he has 11 first round submission finishes. Thats the only match im really interested in, though i have the feeling it could be one of those cards that is uninteresting on paper but ends up being quite exciting. Despite this being a slightly lackluster card, the ufc has some ridiculously stacked cards and very exciting matchups coming up plus its a free card, can't complain.


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:57 am 
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BlueTrain wrote:
I think Ellenberger could pull an upset on Shields, Ellenberger is a beastly wrestler (anyone else surprised at how massive some welterweights are these days?) with KO power which is the worst type of matchup for shields.
good call there! shields has never been dispatched so fast, so suddenly and so easily... he has a legendary chin and many of his fights go the distance... so i was pretty shocked by the result.
people are saying ellenberger might fight the winner of penn/diaz as title contender eliminator.

do you guys think rampage has any chance at all against jon jones?


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 Post subject: Re: Martial Arts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:01 am 
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Wasn't expecting it to play out like that wow, shields was complaining bout the stoppage cmon man you were going for a single leg on the referee. Big things expected now for ellenberger, hes got the potential to beat anyone at 170 with his power and wrestling ability.

Rampage always has a chance no matter who he is fighting with the type of ko power he brings but its hard to favour him over bones in that fight. If jones gets him down it'll be over quickly, rampage is good at powering out of submissions and 'slammin mahfuggas' but his grappling ability off his back is pretty average to say the least. If (a big if) rampage keeps it on the feet things could get interesting, jones's striking is effective but has a number of flaws in it. Im pulling for rampage but ive got jones by 1st or 2nd round tko via ground and pound.


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