Except my argument is Manos is not a B or Z movie. It's a terrible movie that was made bearable by MST3K.

Also, there's a rule that nothing on MST3K can make this list.

Well considering Rifftrax is the spiritual successor to MST3K, and they did Battlefield Earth and Batman & Robin, technically that shouldn't be on here.

No rule about Rifftrax, just MST3K because it specifically dealt with B and Z grade movies. Bring it up with Boo Boo or Dreww if you must.

The difference is that B&R and Battlefield Earth aren't micro-budgeted, independent films that are in the public domain.

Fine. Point taken

Two questions:

1) What are people's thoughts on A Serbian Film? I think it should be here.

2) Has anyone ever heard of Surveillance? I know this one guy who hated it so much he called it the worst movie of the decade (and Battlefield Earth was #2 on his list).

The first one shouldn't be here, as terrible as it is.

I haven't seen the second one, but its reception seems mixed at worst.

Isn't that a movie by David Lynch's daughter?

Is there a criteria for this? It seems like any parody movie associated with scary movie could be eligible. (Except the first two in that series.)

The Happening and I Love You Philip Morris are two I'd personally put on too, the latter being more personal but The Happening didn't even have a serious plot in my book, and modern, mainstream horror movies seem to be getting worse and worse each year... you wouldn't really expect a movie like "Piranha 3d" to be any good to begin with I guess, and while in that sense they aren't really significant failures... I'd put Pet Semetary over basically every movie like that.

"I Love You Phillip Morris" isn't eligible for this list as it recieved positive reviews. "The Happening" probably is, though.

I think our criteria is the movie must be both a commercial and critical flop, but i'm not too sure about the commercial flop part (the critical failure part is definitely a criteria). Also the film must not be a B/Z-grade MST3K fodder film. Those go on the "Best Worst Movies" list.

Largely, movies with low Metacritic (films rating is in the red) and Rotten Tomatoes (green tomato splat) scores are the most likely to get on this list, but even that's not a movies can be critically reviled but make tons of money (like the Transformers movies).

Well like I said ILUPM was more of a personal choice, but I won't really argue for that one. Still, though... for the story it's based on it's a HORRIBLE movie that really didn't get the criticism it deserves... but not everyone finds Carrey as intolerable as I do.

Dance Flick, Epic Movie, Vampires Suck ETC are all horrible though, and also receieve horrible reviews (for good reason, too... I'd probably watch Twilight twice consecutively before attempting vampires suck again)

Just checked and the last two scored a 2% and a 4%

As far as M. Night things go, Last Airbender deserves it more.

So, so much.

Yes.

Holy shit I just remembered a movie when from when I was 10 that I completely forgot about: The Stupids.

It was based off of a children's books series. It starred Tom Arnold and that dude who was the authority figure in the Twisted Sister videos.

This has to be here, it is fucking awful