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 Post subject: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Criteria:
Technical Ability (Speed, Rolls/Snarework, Footwork, Cymbalwork, Control, Odd-Time Sigs, Polyrhythms, Limb Independence, Dynamics, Precision)
Uniqueness
Versatility (Genre Blending, Command Over Multiple Styles, Rudimentary Knowledge)
The winner of the most individual criterions is awarded the higher spot. In the case of a tie, the winner of the Uniqueness criterion will be awarded the higher spot

1 - Vinnie Colaiuta (Solo, Frank Zappa, Sting, Chick Corea)
2 - Dave Weckl (Solo)
3 - Steve Gadd (Solo, Chick Corea, Paul Simon)
4 - Billy Cobham (Mahavishnu Orchestra, Miles Davis)
5 - Buddy Rich (Solo)
6 - Terry Bozzio (Frank Zappa, Missing Person, Fantômas, Solo)
7 - Bill Bruford (King Crimson, Yes, Earthworks, Solo)
8 - Dennis Chambers (John Scofield, Santana, John McLaughlin)
9 - Tony Williams (Miles Davis, Solo)
10 - Marco Minnemann (Solo, Paul Gilbert)
11 - Steve Smith (Vital Information, Tony MacAlpine, Journey)
12 - Max Roach (Solo)
13 - Tony Royster Jr. (Solo, Jay-Z, Gospel Chops)
14 - Thomas Pridgen (The Mars Volta, Gospel Chops)
15 - Thomas Lang (Solo, John Wetton)
16 - Bobby Jarzombek (Rob Halford, Spastic Ink, Demons & Wizards)
17 - Carl Palmer (Emerson Lake and Palmer, Atomic Rooster)
18 - Peter Erskine (Solo, Weather Report, Stan Kenton)
19 - Elvin Jones (John Coltrane, Charles Mingus)
20 - Aynsley Dunbar (Frank Zappa, Jeff Beck Group, Jefferson Starship)
21 - Gene Krupa (Eddie Condon, Benny Goodman)
22 - Art Blakey (Solo, The Jazz Messengers)
23 - Mike Mangini (Steve Vai, Extreme, Annihilator)
24 - Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree, Solo)
25 - Danny Carey (Tool, VOLTO!)
26 - Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater, Liquid Tension Experiment)
27 - Jack DeJohnette (Solo, Charles Lloyd, Miles Davis)
28 - Virgil Donati (Planet X)
29 - Rashied Ali (John Coltrane, Solo)
30 - Akira Jimbo (Solo)
31 - Simon Phillips (Solo, Toto, The Who)
32 - Mark Mondesir (John McLaughlin, Jethro Tull, Jazz Warriors)
33 - Chad Wackerman (Solo, Frank Zappa)
34 - Roy Haynes (Solo, Eric Dolphy, Chick Corea)
35 - Derek Roddy (Hate Eternal)
36 - Deen Castronovo (Tony MacAlpine, Journey, Cacophony)
37 - Morgan Ågren (Kaipa, Fredrik Thordendal)
38 - Harvey Mason (Bob James, The Brecker Brothers, Herbie Hancock)
39 - Joe Morello (Dave Brubeck Quartet)
40 - Neil Peart (Rush, Buddy Rich Big Band)
41 - Jojo Mayer (Nerve, Solo)
42 - Carter Beauford (Dave Matthews Band)
43 - Greg Bissonette (Solo, Steve Vai, David Lee Roth)
44 - Bill Stewart (Maceo Parker, Jim Hall)
45 - Louis Bellson (Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington, Ella Fitzgerald)
46 - David Garibaldi (Tower of Power)
47 - Jeff Watts (Branford Marsalis, Michael Brecker, Solo)
48 - Ed Shaughnessy
49 - Rod Morgenstein (Dixie Dregs, Winger)
50 - Ed Blackwell (Ornette Coleman, Don Cherry)

Pending:

Richard Christy (Death, Iced Earth)
Sean Reinert (Cynic, Death, Gordian Knot, Aghora)
Tim Alexander (Primus, Attention Deficit)
Gene Hoglan (Death, Dark Angel, Devin Townsend, Dethklok)
Lewis Nash (Classical Jazz Quartet, McCoy Tyner)
Paul Wertico (SBB, Solo)
Gary Novak
Al Foster (Miles Davis, Sonny Rollins, McCoy Tyner)
Steve Flynn (Atheist)
Chick Webb
Alphonse Mouzon (McCoy Tyner, Weather Report, Solo)
Kenny Clarke
Connie Kay (Modern Jazz Quartet)
Jim Chapin (Solo)
Lenny White (Chick Corea)
Tomas Haake (Meshuggah)
Bobby Sanabria
Horacio Hernandez (Solo, Italuba)
Jimmy Chamberlin (The Smashing Pumpkins, Solo)
Omar Hakim (Weather Report)
Antonio Sanchez (Pat Metheny Group)
Brann Dailor (Mastodon)


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:49 pm 
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Just thought I'd start us off with Vinnie/Weckl...

Criteria:
Technical Ability
Speed - Feet is Vinnie, Hands seem about tied.
Rolls- Weckl.
Footwork- Probably Vinnie.
Cymbalwork- Easily Weckl
Control- Vinnie
Odd-Time Sigs- ?
Polyrhythms- I'd say weckl but im not sure
Precision- Vinnie
Uniqueness Probably Weckl
Versatility - Vinnie
Genre Blending, -Vinnie
Command Over Multiple Styles Vinnie
Rudimentary Knowledge- I'm going to give this to Dave, he's much more proficient at improvisation and really uses a lot of everything even in the context of improv.

Also, Gary Husband should be re added at least for now.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Are you from the old forum, Human? Anyway I agree with Vinnie v Weckl. Who's Gary Husband? I'll make sure to add him soon. Around where would you put him?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:25 pm 
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I guess he's a session drummer primarily

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWBk50vykUA


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Human wrote:
I guess he's a session drummer primarily

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWBk50vykUA


Not bad :)

I threw him in the 70s for now. The bottom half of this list is still a bit messy, so we'll eventually sort out his placement.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Yeah, I just suggested it because I saw him on TM's old skill list.

And Neil is definitely better than Danny. I'd say they are tied in most things... but Neil has Footwork/Rolls/Rudimentary Knowledge.

Now that I mention it, so is Gavin Harrison.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:52 pm 
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I don't think Peart has him on Footwork. He's not too much for fancy kickwork anyway, but then Carey does stuff like Aenima or Ticks and Leeches which show phenomenal control and coordination, not to mention his single footwork.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Carey v Peart:

Tech:
Speed - Peart
Rolls - Tie
Footwork - Peart
Cymbalwork - Carey
Polys - Carey
Odd-Time Sigs - Carey
Precision - Tie
Control - Carey

Uniqueness - Carey

Versatility:
Stylistic - Peart
Genre Blending - Tie
Rudimentary Knowledge - Peart

that's 5 to 4 Carey, with 3 tied criterions. Any objections?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:59 pm 
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thejew wrote:
Carey v Peart:

Tech:
Speed - Peart
Rolls - Tie
Footwork - Peart
Cymbalwork - Carey
Polys - Carey
Odd-Time Sigs - Carey
Precision - Tie
Control - Carey

Uniqueness - Carey

Versatility:
Stylistic - Peart
Genre Blending - Tie
Rudimentary Knowledge - Peart

that's 5 to 4 Carey, with 3 tied criterions. Any objections?


Rolls aren't tied... Neil uses a wider variety.
As for cymbalwork... La Villa Strangiato? Tie. They are both excellent hi hatters but not spectacular otherwise.

Onto Gavin/Danny...

Tech:
Speed - Gavin for feet, Tie for hands.
Rolls - Gavin
Footwork - Gavin
Cymbalwork - Gavin
Polys - Carey
Odd-Time Sigs - Gavin
Precision - Gavin
Control - Carey

Uniqueness - Carey

Versatility:
Stylistic - Gavin
Genre Blending - Gavin
Rudimentary Knowledge - Gavin


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Human wrote:
thejew wrote:
Carey v Peart:

Tech:
Speed - Peart
Rolls - Tie
Footwork - Peart
Cymbalwork - Carey
Polys - Carey
Odd-Time Sigs - Carey
Precision - Tie
Control - Carey

Uniqueness - Carey

Versatility:
Stylistic - Peart
Genre Blending - Tie
Rudimentary Knowledge - Peart

that's 5 to 4 Carey, with 3 tied criterions. Any objections?


Rolls aren't tied... Neil uses a wider variety.
As for cymbalwork... La Villa Strangiato? Tie. They are both excellent hi hatters but not spectacular otherwise.

Onto Gavin/Danny...

Tech:
Speed - Gavin for feet, Tie for hands.
Rolls - Gavin
Footwork - Gavin
Cymbalwork - Gavin
Polys - Carey
Odd-Time Sigs - Gavin
Precision - Gavin
Control - Carey

Uniqueness - Carey

Versatility:
Stylistic - Gavin
Genre Blending - Gavin
Rudimentary Knowledge - Gavin


I'd tie Odd-Time Sigs between Carey and Gavin, but Gavin still wins, so I'll make that change.

Also with Peart v Carey, if you include Carey's tom grooving as rolls, then he definitely has more variety than Peart I'd say. So I think tying it is the right thing to do there. I can definitely see cymbalwork being a tie. So maybe:

Tech:
Speed - Peart
Rolls - Tie
Footwork - Peart
Cymbalwork - Tie
Polys - Carey
Odd-Time Sigs - Carey
Precision - Tie
Control - Carey

Uniqueness - Carey

Versatility:
Stylistic - Peart
Genre Blending - Tie
Rudimentary Knowledge - Peart

So that's 4 to 4, but Carey has the tiebreaker with Uniqueness.. so Carey would still win. Unless Carey's tom grooving isn't included as rolls (though I don't see why it wouldn't), then I guess Peart would get Rolls.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Fast riff =/= roll.

Danny's tom patterns show his ability to apply rudiments quickly across the kit, not how well he rolls. "Rolls" should actually measure the variety/speed/fluidity of actual Press/Stroke rolls.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:27 pm 
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Human wrote:
Fast riff =/= roll.

Danny's tom patterns show his ability to apply rudiments quickly across the kit, not how well he rolls. "Rolls" should actually measure the variety/speed/fluidity of actual Press/Stroke rolls.


I see what you mean. Well in that case, I guess Peart wins? I'll make the switch.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Again, Carey should get footwork.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:05 pm 
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Sherick wrote:
Again, Carey should get footwork.


Peart can do some pretty difficult soloing while maintaining the Waltz beat, which isn't an easy task. That should at least tie him with Carey, since Carey's footwork isn't the greatest, save for a few songs.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Most Skilled Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:07 pm 
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Tie would be good. Aenima and Ticks & Leeches really show him off though. Nothing too technical, but great speed and precision (the middle part of Aenima is some very tricky timing) and his quick singlefoot flans.


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