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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:11 am 
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The reasons why Black Sabbath songs are that high can be found in the previous topic. Some people even suggested that there should be 4 BS songs in the top 6.

Why Paranoid is the greatest from BS? Well, I don't fucking know. It got popularity mostly and it's a standard metal classic. I'll never put Black Sabbath before Paranoid tho. Where the fuck is Black Sabbath's impact? As long as I am looking in the top 10, almost every song in there beat BS in impact. War Pigs is by far the best song from BS, composition wise, but I can't find arguments why it should be higher than Paranoid.

Why Paranoid is above MoP is beyond my imagination. But some of you guys are biased (hello Negative Creep) and probably tired of listening 'Meta is cvlt' from 13yo kids and you don't want to put MoP in place that it deserves. Fine to me, I think it is overrated too. But when we want to make this list objective we must keep in mind than MoP, For Whom the Bell Tolls etc. are influencing that 13yo heroes. Maybe just guitar heroes, but still.

About AoD - as long as it's not in the top 5 I won't say the list is finished.
About BtRoD - it looses with Raining Blood in impact and popularity so it surely won't get into top 10. It can move up a couple of spots tho. Where do you want to see it?

I'm glad discussion about top 10 started because I'm not satisfied with it. Maybe the songs are chosen right, but the order of those needs serious improvement.
Throw at me your 'perfect top tens'.

Mine:
1. Master of Puppets (yeah, wtf)
2. Hallowed be Thy Name
3. Paranoid
4. Angel of Death
5. Ace of Spades
6. War Pigs
7. Victim of Changes
8. #
9. Black Sabbath
10. Iron Man


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:40 am 
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1. Angel of Death
2. Black Sabbath
3. Iron Man
4. Master of Puppets
5. Hallowed Be Thy Name
6. Victim of Changes (or Exciter)
7. Ace of Spades
8. War Pigs
9. The Number of The Beast
10. Paranoid


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:22 am 
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Posts: 14160
MJ7 wrote:
The reasons why Black Sabbath songs are that high can be found in the previous topic. Some people even suggested that there should be 4 BS songs in the top 6.

Why Paranoid is the greatest from BS? Well, I don't fucking know. It got popularity mostly and it's a standard metal classic. I'll never put Black Sabbath before Paranoid tho. Where the fuck is Black Sabbath's impact? As long as I am looking in the top 10, almost every song in there beat BS in impact. War Pigs is by far the best song from BS, composition wise, but I can't find arguments why it should be higher than Paranoid.

Why Paranoid is above MoP is beyond my imagination. But some of you guys are biased (hello Negative Creep) and probably tired of listening 'Meta is cvlt' from 13yo kids and you don't want to put MoP in place that it deserves. Fine to me, I think it is overrated too. But when we want to make this list objective we must keep in mind than MoP, For Whom the Bell Tolls etc. are influencing that 13yo heroes. Maybe just guitar heroes, but still.

About AoD - as long as it's not in the top 5 I won't say the list is finished.
About BtRoD - it looses with Raining Blood in impact and popularity so it surely won't get into top 10. It can move up a couple of spots tho. Where do you want to see it?

I'm glad discussion about top 10 started because I'm not satisfied with it. Maybe the songs are chosen right, but the order of those needs serious improvement.
Throw at me your 'perfect top tens'.

Mine:
1. Master of Puppets (yeah, wtf)
2. Hallowed be Thy Name
3. Paranoid
4. Angel of Death
5. Ace of Spades
6. War Pigs
7. Victim of Changes
8. #
9. Black Sabbath
10. Iron Man


Hello son.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:02 am 
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Did you seriously just say that the song Black Sabbath had no impact?!

I would love to have whatever you're smoking.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Location: Somewhere Along the Highway
1. Hallowed be Thy Name - Iron Maiden
2. Master of Puppets - Metallica
3. War Pigs - Black Sabbath
4. Angel of Death - Slayer
5. Ace of Spades - Motorhead
6. Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
7. Victim of Changes - Judas Priest
8. Iron Man - Black Sabbath
9. Run to the Hills - Iron Maiden
10. Beyond the Realms of Death - Judas Priest


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:42 pm 
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IMO, AoS above Black Sabbath is laughable.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:55 pm 
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Then give arguments against AoS and for BS. In my eyes AoS takes both popularity and impact. BS wins only in influence.

List will be updated in a minute.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:57 pm 
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Oh come on, Black Sabbath totally had impact.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Are you TOTALLY unaware of the controversy that song/album caused?
Please find me another song from that time period that sounds like it. You won't.

Ace Of Spades was just a trashier version of speed metal, which was already being touched upon by Priest (Exciter, Call For The Priest) and Maiden (self-titled song, Remember Tomorrow, etc.).

AoS was huge, but it was just speed metal with more of a punk edge.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:51 pm 
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So Black Sabbath was controversial and AoS started thrash metal by speeding up already fast speed metal and adding to this more brutality. Go on.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:10 pm 
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MJ7 wrote:
So Black Sabbath was controversial and AoS started thrash metal by speeding up already fast speed metal and adding to this more brutality. Go on.


You say "Black Sabbath was controversial" like it means nothing. :facepalm:
I respect you as a metal fan, so this isnt personal.

AoS isnt thrash, it's just speed metal with rawer lyrics. And it certainly didnt start thrash...you can look all the way back to Into The Void for that, not to mention Dissident Aggressor. Fuck, even Queen were hinting at it, with stuff like Ogre Battle and Stone Cold Crazy.
Black Sabbath, by contrast, was the song that certified metal as a genre unto itself, so that's pretty huge. And when you factor in how controversial it was, well there you go.
The song caused a huge stir. Critics, and even most fans, hated them at first. Even some religious groups were rallying against them, if I'm not mistaken. It was too evil, too different, too heavy. It wasnt until Paranoid that more people started accepting them.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:42 pm 
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BS was, as you said, too heavy for that time. That's why I'm talking about very limited musical impact that it did back in time. Of course, people were trying to play as heavy as Iommi did. But as we know, it was not so easy for them and doom metal started for real about 12-15 years after release of Black Sabbath.

Heavy metal from the other hand took its standards from Paranoid album which was faster and more acceptable than dark and evil BS.

Of course I do understand the importance of the first metal song with memorable mysterious intro, ultra-heavy well-recognizable riff and true metal lyrics. I won't kick it out of the top 10 for sure, but when it comes to comparing BS with AoS I just simply cannot allow BS win. Maybe Into the Void got thrash riff, Dissident Aggressor was influence to Slayer or Iron Maiden popularized punky style, but AoS was the big hit (which charted high) with harsh vocals, catchy, thrashy riff with shitloads of energy in the fastest tempo possible at that time. And it impacted speed, heavy and thrash metal directly. And immediately, which is the case. Many people think that Motorhead = Ace of Spades. I don't blame them. AoS is THAT big.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
even most fans, hated them at first.



Which is why it sold so much in the UK and US. That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Quote:
BS was, as you said, too heavy for that time. That's why I'm talking about very limited musical impact that it did back in time.


Wtf do you mean? If they created a huge controversial stir, THAT'S impact. Whether it's negative or not, they had a huge impact on the rock music world.

Quote:
Of course, people were trying to play as heavy as Iommi did. But as we know, it was not so easy for them and doom metal started for real about 12-15 years after release of Black Sabbath.


More like, doom metal started WITH the release of Black Sabbath.

Quote:
Heavy metal from the other hand took its standards from Paranoid album which was faster and more acceptable than dark and evil BS.


Yeah that's pretty much my point. Paranoid was more accessible, more mainstream. But the impact of BS was just as huge, just in a different way.

Quote:
Maybe Into the Void got thrash riff, Dissident Aggressor was influence to Slayer or Iron Maiden popularized punky style, but AoS was the big hit (which charted high) with harsh vocals, catchy, thrashy riff with shitloads of energy in the fastest tempo possible at that time.


Yes, it was much more popular than BS in their respective primes. So it wins popularity, but that's 1/3 of this criteria isnt it? Impact and influence is not even close and I cant even believe we're arguing this.

Quote:
And it impacted speed, heavy and thrash metal directly. And immediately, which is the case. Many people think that Motorhead = Ace of Spades. I don't blame them. AoS is THAT big.


Speed, heavy and thrash metal? Nice try in attempting to make that sound like three different genres, or even sub-genres.

AoS impacted speed and thrash. BS impacted EVERYTHING in metal. You fail.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Metal Songs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:46 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
AoS impacted speed and thrash. BS impacted EVERYTHING in metal. You fail.

You're angry because you cannot make the proper arguments, just like in discussion in the previous topic. I guess burned churches in 90's caused more controversy in the world than satanism in Black Sabbath album. Should I put Freezing Moon higher than Ace of Spades then? Top 10 will remain the same for now, but I will still like to see your preferred order, Neg Creep.


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