haha so does that mean they can be included? I guess I should get together a list of punk albums if so.

I guess so.

Here's a quick, very rough top 50, thoughts?

I decided to move Bowie down a bit as I think a lot of his big albums aren't really alt. rock, so I don't think all his discography counts toward this list.


1. The Velvet Underground
2. Radiohead
3. R.E.M.
4. Pixies
5. Sonic Youth
6. Joy Division
7. Talking Heads
8. Nirvana
9. Television
10. The Smiths
11. Elvis Costello
12. The Cure
13. The Fall
14. Pavement
15. Brian Eno
16. Patti Smith
17. Beck
18. Bjork
19. The Smashing Pumpkins
20. U2
21. Blondie
22. Husker Du
23. New Order
24. The Stone Roses
25. My Bloody Valentine
26. Wire
27. The Replacements
28. Talk Talk
29. The Jesus and Mary Chain
30. Lou Reed
31. Neutral Milk Hotel
32. Slint
33. The Flaming Lips
34. Dinosaur Jr.
35. The Arcade Fire
36. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
37. Gang of Four
38. Fugazi
39. Elliott Smith
40. Roxy Music
41. Sigur Ros
42. Pere Ubu
43. Devo
44. Pearl Jam
45. Cocteau Twins
46. Siouxsie & The Banshees
47. Public Image Ltd.
48. The Jam
49. Nine Inch Nails
50. Soundgarden

I'd have The Talking Heads and Joy Division over Nirvana (so either at like the 9 or 10 spot personally).

I think TJaMC are too low for basically starting an actual defined noise pop and shoegaze sound.

Then for punk
Need to be there:

The Clash
The Ramones
bad Brains
Buzzcocks
Dead Kennedys
New York Dolls
Pere Ubu
Black Flag
Refused
X

Should probably be there:

Misfits
Richard Hell and the Vovoids
Sex Pistols
The Damned
Fear
Circle Jerks
Bad Religion
The Cramps
At the Drive-In
Brand New
Rudimentary Peni
Operation Ivy/Rancid

My bad if I repeated anyone who's there, I just assumed no punk bands were other than Wire.

Since when is punk rock "alternative"?

Changed it with your suggestions, how's it looking now?

Yeah, I think we actually need to debate this.

For some reason although say, the Buzzcocks or Pere Ubu strike me as alternative, the Sex Pistols, the Clash and the Ramones don't necesserially.

I wouldn't call pop-punk alternative either, but really I think DDD has too broad of scape in concerning what "alternative" is.

I mean David Bowie? Really? Might as well include the Beatles. Velvet Underground I can actually see since they were noise rock. The Stooges though? Hard Rock.

I thought Pere Ubu was post-punk.

I think it looks pretty solid, I think the 51-100 spots are gonna be more difficult.

I do think you have a point though, I've got to say, I'm starting to think Bowie shouldn't be on here either. Personally, I think it's more to do with post-punk, noise, indie etc. I'm not that sure about punk either.

I think we need to decide what counts as alt. music and what doesn't.

Alternative Rock...of course...

RYM has these listed under Alternative Rock

Alternative Dance
Ambient Pop
Britpop
Dream Pop
Emo-Pop
Grunge
Indie Rock
Industrial Rock
Jangle Pop
Math Rock
Noise Pop
Noise Rock
Post-Grunge
Post-Rock
Rap Rock
Shoegaze

I'd say that's a pretty definitive list...

Punk =/= alternative because they are two separate movements anyway. Its not like every movement that rebels against the norm is alternative. Obviously, with any other genre you'll have crossovers, but punk rock shouldn't be shelved under alternative rock.

Yeah, I don't think punk should be here, or Bowie.

Not sure about the Stooges or MC5 though, I don't know enough of their music, what do you guys think?

Both are proto-punk, which is basically hard rock. They don't belong here.

Hmmm, would Patti Smith count with that group as well?

Well what about Post-Punk?