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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:02 am 
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Linguistic ability goes to Blood On The Tracks, actually. Creativity, too. Like DSotM with "Time", one defining performance ain't gonna carry a whole album. Blood On The Tracks has massive versatility, at the very least equals BiABH in wit (see: "Idiot Wind"), and keeps every other subcriterion of linguistic showcase close. "It's Alright Ma", while there are no words to describe it, can't compare to the fact that EVERY SINGLE song on BoTT is a lyrical masterwork. BiABH doesn't cover as much ground as Blood On The Tracks did, with epic storytelling (Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts), multi-perspective narration (Tangled Up In Blue), pseudo-Biblical love songs (Shelter From The Storm), and a closer that spoke volumes with its simplicity (Buckets Of Rain).

Here's a more accurate breakdown:
Creativity: BoTT
LS: BoTT
Influence: BiABH
Cultural Impact: BiABH

I'd think BoTT's leads in Creativity and Linguistic Showcase makes up for the deficits in Influence and Cultural Impact, so BoTT>BiABH


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:28 am 
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Just to make sure no albums get lost in the shuffle, I'm gonna throw together a randomly ordered list of 31-50 candidates.

Here we go:

The Velvet Underground & Nico - Lou Reed
The Smiths - Morrissey
I'm Your Man - Leonard Cohen
Dig, Lazarus, Dig!!! - Nick Cave
Vitalogy - Eddie Vedder
Graceland - Paul Simon
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band - John Lennon/Paul McCartney
The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle - Bruce Springsteen
In Utero - Kurt Cobain
Exodus - Bob Marley
Jackson Browne - Jackson Browne
Court And Spark - Joni Mitchell
Blood And Chocolate - Elvis Costello
Murder Ballads - Nick Cave
Songs From A Room - Leonard Cohen
John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band - John Lennon
Revolver - Lennon/McCartney
The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society - Ray Davies
Bridge Over Troubled Water - Paul Simon
Tommy - Pete Townsend


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:06 am 
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Deany wrote:
Linguistic ability goes to Blood On The Tracks, actually. Creativity, too. Like DSotM with "Time", one defining performance ain't gonna carry a whole album. Blood On The Tracks has massive versatility, at the very least equals BiABH in wit (see: "Idiot Wind"), and keeps every other subcriterion of linguistic showcase close. "It's Alright Ma", while there are no words to describe it, can't compare to the fact that EVERY SINGLE song on BoTT is a lyrical masterwork. BiABH doesn't cover as much ground as Blood On The Tracks did, with epic storytelling (Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts), multi-perspective narration (Tangled Up In Blue), pseudo-Biblical love songs (Shelter From The Storm), and a closer that spoke volumes with its simplicity (Buckets Of Rain).

Here's a more accurate breakdown:
Creativity: BoTT
LS: BoTT
Influence: BiABH
Cultural Impact: BiABH

I'd think BoTT's leads in Creativity and Linguistic Showcase makes up for the deficits in Influence and Cultural Impact, so BoTT>BiABH


I much prefer BoTT to BiBH as an album, but for this list in my mind BiABH takes this quite easily.

I'm not sure how you got BoTT to have more variety and versatility than BiABH, seeing as how BoTT is largely based around one subject (the break-up of him and his wife) whereas BiBH has a variety of subjects and ideas relating to his relationship with his fans at that point, drug-taking, society as a whole, as well as love songs and break-up songs.

BiABH certainly isn't all about one song, "Subterranean Homesick Blues" was a deliberate attack on his fans turning against him for abandoning folk and political songs and has some of him most famous and quoted lines it: "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" "20 years of schooling and they put you on the day-shift" etc.

"Mr. Tambourine Man" was also one of the first psychedelic songs to sing about drug-use and drug-taking, before Hendrix or Sgt. Peppers' or the Doors or any of that.

"Gates of Eden" is right up there as one of the most poetic and layered songs Dylan has ever written and is a lengthy religious parable, both praising religion for some of its fundamental humanitarian beliefs while criticising its hypocrisy at the same time.

"Bob Dylan's 115th Dream" was one of his finest example of his surreal imagery and storytelling, which is argubly his most influential trait as a lyricist.

"It's All Over Now (Baby Blue)" as a break-up song is at least comparable to the types of songs on BoTT.

With the exception of multi-perspective narration BiABH has all of those things you mentioned and more! Epic storytelling (Bob Dylan's 115th dream), pseudo-Biblical songs (Gates of Eden), love songs (She Belongs to Me, Love Minus Zero/No Limit).

And to add to that it also has the angriest and most cutting political song he ever wrote (It's Alright Ma), drug-fueled psychedelia (Mr Tambourine Man) and the surreal and nonsensical song deliberately designed as a "fuck you" to the fans who turned against him (Subterranean Homesick Blues).

It also beats BoTT in influence and Cultural impact by a long, long way, so even if BoTT slightly took creativity or linguistic showcase (which I really don't believe it does), then BiABH's wins in the other 2 catagories would be too great for them to make anything up on it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Awesome post, I'm with Avery. BiaBH is just too damn good.

But I thought It's All Over Now Baby Blue was about war?

Plus, his absolute best lyrical performance, imo, is on that album (It's Alright Ma).


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Re: It's All Over Now, Baby Blue. It may well be about war, I just assumed it was a break up song.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Deany wrote:
Just to make sure no albums get lost in the shuffle, I'm gonna throw together a randomly ordered list of 31-50 candidates.

Here we go:

The Velvet Underground & Nico - Lou Reed
The Smiths - Morrissey
I'm Your Man - Leonard Cohen
Dig, Lazarus, Dig!!! - Nick Cave
Vitalogy - Eddie Vedder
Graceland - Paul Simon
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band - John Lennon/Paul McCartney
The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle - Bruce Springsteen
In Utero - Kurt Cobain
Exodus - Bob Marley
Jackson Browne - Jackson Browne
Court And Spark - Joni Mitchell
Blood And Chocolate - Elvis Costello
Murder Ballads - Nick Cave
Songs From A Room - Leonard Cohen
John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band - John Lennon
Revolver - Lennon/McCartney
The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society - Ray Davies
Bridge Over Troubled Water - Paul Simon
Tommy - Pete Townsend


An artist i just realized that we've missed out on a lot on this forum is Peter Gabriel.. Some of his stuff is abnormally intelligent, and he writes brilliantly in general... The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway should be top 50, I'd say...


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 am 
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Fine, BiABH > BotT. So that makes the top 7:

1. Bringing It All Back Home
2. Blood On The Tracks
3. Born to Run
4. Songs Of Leonard Cohen
5. Late For The Sky
6. On The Beach
7. Highway 61 Revisited

Dylan gets the 1 and 2 spot. Sweet.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:07 pm 
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Avery_Island wrote:
Re: It's All Over Now, Baby Blue. It may well be about war, I just assumed it was a break up song.

I always interpreted it as being about Dylan himself leaving behind his folk singer persona.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:38 pm 
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So what's our full list looking like right now, Deany?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:51 am 
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The Man wrote:
So what's our full list looking like right now, Deany?


Something like this:

1. Bringing It All Back Home (Bob Dylan)
2. Born To Run (Bruce Springsteen)
3. Blood On The Tracks (Bob Dylan)
4. Songs Of Leonard Cohen (Leonard Cohen)
5. Late For The Sky (Jackson Browne)
6. On The Beach (Neil Young)
7. Highway 61 Revisited (Bob Dylan)
8. Dark Side Of The Moon (Roger Waters)
9. Quadrophenia (Pete Townsend)
10. Strange Days (Jim Morrison)
11. Imagine (John Lennon)
12. Blue (Joni Mitchell)
13. Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, & Thyme (Paul Simon)
14. Armed Forces (Elvis Costello)
15. Songs Of Love And Hate (Leonard Cohen)
16. Darkness On The Edge Of Town (Bruce Springsteen)
17. Blonde On Blonde (Bob Dylan)
18. Rust Never Sleeps (Neil Young)
19. Astral Weeks (Van Morrison)
20. Who's Next (Pete Townsend)
21. The Doors (Jim Morrison)
22. Animals (Roger Waters)
23. Rubber Soul (Lennon/McCartney)
24. Imperial Bedroom (Elvis Costello)
25. Warren Zevon (Warren Zevon)
26. For Everyman (Jackson Browne)
27. After The Gold Rush (Neil Young)
28. Arthur (Or The Decline And Fall Of The British Empire) (Ray Davies)
29. Ladies Of The Canyon (Joni Mitchell)
30. Rain Dogs (Tom Waits)

Any more qualms?


Last edited by Deany on Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:16 am 
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re: Avery Island, I don't really think It's Alright Ma is his most cutting, I'd say that definitely goes to Masters of War. The sheer amount of hatred and anger that radiates from those lyrics when you read them is astonishing.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:19 am 
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Here's my 31-40:

31. The Velvet Underground & Nico (Lou Reed)
32. Graceland (Paul Simon)
33. The Wild, The Innocent, And The E Street Shuffle (Bruce Springsteen)
34. Murder Ballads (Nick Cave)
35. The Kinks Are The Village Preservation Society (Ray Davies)
36. Tommy (Pete Townsend)
37. Jackson Browne (Jackson Browne)
38. The Smiths (Morrissey)
39. In Utero (Kurt Cobain)
40. Songs From A Room (Leonard Cohen)

???


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:07 am 
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That looks solid at a first glance. I'll give it a more in depth lookover soon


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:02 am 
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I think It's Alright Ma is more about outing people's hypocrisies more than being angry. I agree that it could be his best lyrical performance.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Lyrical Albums
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:54 pm 
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I don't get songs from a room... I thought it was one of his weaker lyrical efforts... I'm your Man is better for the spot, not only for Everybody Knows... Great lyrics all over the album..


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