I think that's much better.

I question Wheels of Fire's being so low, but good changes on the whole. Is CRJ aware/has he given his approval for a list edited by someone else?

thejew gave me permission

Wheels Of Fire only has four live songs, and only THREE of them have drums. It really shouldn't be that high, imo.
I'd put either Live Cream Volume 1 or 2 there instead.

What about the live Toad? Is it sick? (never heard it)

Oh it's definitely sick (though I prefer that shorter youtube version). Crossroads, Spoonful and Toad are all spectacular. And Traintime actually DOES have drums, but they're very minimal, as it's just a Jack Bruce harmonica number. I don't think it's enough to really make it that high. Like I said, I'd put either of the 'Live Cream' albums there first.

Here's the thing tho, I suspect Wheels of Fire must have some influence right, being Ginger's big live document from the 60s? (Were Live Cream/Live Cream 2 hits in the early 70s?) I mean Wheels of Fire was THE live testament of the late 60s to the best live band of the era. And if I'm not mistaken wouldn't that live Toad be the first major, big-deal live unaccompanied drum solo in rock? (Or am I wrong?)

44 seems a bit low!

Well the thing is, Ginger didn't really have a big live document from the 60's.
He does have huge live documents that were RECORDED in the 60's though (released in the early 70's, to answer your question).



Most people would argue for The Dead as the best live band of that era. NOT ME THOUGH.
And yes I agree, there are only four songs there. And only three of them were spectacular. And only one of them is highly revered by many to this very day, (no doubt due to it's helpful radio exposure), and I think you know which song I mean. ("Well I'm goin' down to Rosedale...").



Probably not. Every time people like you and I make assumptions like that, it always turns out that somebody did it first.
Remember Sampson who used to post on here? He was very good for shattering a lot of the 'myths' held by gullable classic rock heads (one of which was myself).

His approach to what innovation means was near-delusional though, just ask Clash (I'm serious). If Toad were the first really famous unaccompanied live drum solo, that would count for a shit ton in rock's history, regardless of if some no-name did some barely listened to live solo a couple years before

You need to read more of Sampson's post, his post on Elvis > The Beatles for cultural influence was absolutely EPIC. My favorite post in ddd history. Plus he was the one who got me to open my mind and look at music in a more mature manner.

Anyway, I'm sure Toad would get originality points (I guess), but I just don't know what we're basing these performances on.

tribute- ozzy osbourne ?

That was an epic post indeed.

He still has absurd biases though, and some very strange and questionable ways of looking at rock history. I don't like the fact that he's seen as this godlike figure on DDD who knows all, and I don't think he deserves that reputation. (Knowledgeable though he may be)

I question the worth of worrying about this thread too much when there's like, 3 of us worrying about it in total, it's not one of the more important threads concept-wise to this subforum, and I'm not even sure what CRJ's stance on it is

I wouldn't say "godlike figure", he's just highly respected because he's the most well-informed and CIVIL poster on the site. With always a massive argument to back him up.



I guess.

I consider a lot of his arguments kind of absurd but no one questions him practically because 'well he's Sampson'. Ironically that leads to his being held to a LOWER standard, with less scrutiny than other posters get.

Don't get me wrong, the guy's an epic student of rock history, I respect that a ton, it's just the reverential treatment he's gotten, I'm not sure he deserves. I'm not picking on Sampson btw, I'm not sure ANYONE deserves that kind of reverential treatment.

As far as this thread goes, I think CRJ needs to make a statement on his opinion of his existence/status. I love you Bay but CRJ's the new mod here and I wouldn't feel right helping revise a list on here without his permission

Since when has nobody questioned him? He's actually gotten some very strong arguments from people like Bruce, Brett Alan, and J.B. Trance.
He's my favorite poster in ddd history. Our discussions go back to 2003.



I agree.