What? It's much better to have great reputation on forum when you can actually talk to people and make interesting chats and your opinions will be much more respected than just randomly said words like "HE SUCKS". Why the fuck would you want to argue with other forum-users without good reason?

You don't even know anything about DDD's history so why don't you do everybody a favour and shut the fuck up. This is why nobody likes you. You always come up with bullshit like "oh you're just trying to get into the encyclopedia." Just be quiet.

History???
You guys need to get a life
IT'S A FUCKING FORUM

Then why are you trying so hard to fit in?

Please stop arguing and stay on topic guys, thanks.

Charlie Watts has nothing on Neil Peart at all by the way.

You'd think something like that would be obvious.

You know I don't enjoy being picked on like this. I came to this forum thinking it would be fun and it was. I am not trying to fit in. Some of you guys are just to dumb to see that. And when people say nobody likes me that hurts, but it's there loss.
Can we just end this and start over???

Oh well, time to move on:
So is the whole Lombardo/Starr thing settled?

I don't think Ariel had too much of a case on that one.

I do agree on Ringo moving above M.P, but that's about it.

Bonham vs Bruford
Influence- Bonham
Innovation- Bonham
Skill- Bruford
Creativity- Bruford
Versatility- Bruford

Bruford wins 3-2, so why is Bonzo #2 and Bruford #5.
I mean, I think Bonham is a better drummer, but since Bruford won the criteria breakdown shouldn't he be ahead of Bonham?

I'm not sure i'm too comfortable using that method on a greatest drummers list. Obviously, it's up to thejew, but Influence/Impact/Innovation mean much more than skill on a greatest drummers list.

True. I was just posting that as an example. In some cases one drummer will beat another drummer in the criteria, but that doesn't make them a greater drummer.

Damn... good point BayPineapple. Maybe we should take Ariel's advice in a way, and not let the criteria control placements on the list. Cuz Bonham > Bruford on a Greatest list is a given.

In that case I think the top 15 is pretty secure. I don't think Bruford should be any higher, and I think he's greater than Boz, but is he greater than Palmer? Those two are pretty close.

I really don't see Palmer beating B., but if someone knows more than I I'd be glad to be enlightened.

My point was basically that if you follow strict criteria and the criteria isn't perfect (and no criteria is) you end up getting a list that is out of whack...like Bruford>Bonzo (Bruford is clearly more talented than Bonzo IMO and better but even me, Bruford's biggest fan, thinks that's out of whack on a 'greatest' list).

There are two options here: Tweak the criteria (good option) or ignore it to keep Bonzo higher (bad option).

What I would propose is using a points system like we did on the old bass forum. Grade all criteria out of 15...e.g. Bruford would get 15/15 on creativity. Whoever has the highest overall score, all criteria scores added together, is highest, etc. And make influence only out of 10 since as Bassfreak used to say influence should depend on being good in the other scores or you get popular but not good people high up on the list.

I'm fairly confident Bonzo would beat Bruford if we did it this way, plus it would shape up the list a bit (and the list is good right now) IMO.

As for Ringo I just don't see Lombardo being equal in influence. EVERYONE has been either directly or indirectly influenced by Ringo to some extent, except maybe some soul/motown/r&b guys.

Here's the problem with the Lombardo=Ringo influence way of thinking...

More bands today cite Led Zeppelin, I'm fairly confident, than the Beatles as a DIRECT influence. See where I'm going with this...?

To use a starker example, few contemporary guitarists would mention Chuck Berry as an influence in, like, interviews...but his influence was INCALCULABLE on rock guitar, eclipsing Hendrix's.

'Influence' shouldn't just be 'how many pros have name dropped you in interviews?' or Chuck Berry drops out of, like, the top 50 on the rock guitar list when he made guitar the primary instrument of rock and was the first big rock guitarist who everyone else was influenced by. Get my reasoning?

Ringo>>>Lombardo in influence.

I don't really have a problem with Lombardo staying ahead of Ringo by this criteria though since he probably wins tech, creativity & versatility...

BayPineapple -

As far as I'm concerned you're a fine poster and don't let others get to you too much :-) (but don't make accusations about others either IMO if you want to stay 'popular'...lol)

...

I think Ulrich is sick, especially in the late 80s.

Can someone please give me some real, hard evidence Lombardo has played jazz?

Ringo's immediate impact on the drumming world in 1964 was huge. Steve Smith: "Before Ringo, drum stars were measured by their soloing ability and virtuosity. Ringo's popularity brought forth a new paradigm in how the public saw drummers. We started to see the drummer as an equal participant in the compositional aspect. One of Ringo's great qualities was that he composed unique, stylistic drum parts for the Beatles songs. His parts are so signature to the songs that you can listen to a Ringo drum part without the rest of the music and still identify the song."

Don't forget he popularized the things I mentioned earlier. And he inspired millions to pick up the drum kit, many of those millions would go on to join major bands.

Ulrich has influenced majorly bringing thrash drumming to the mainstream. And the concept of things like double bass drumming.

As for 16th-note double bass drumming...listen to "Overkill" by Motorhead. Released in 1979. I think I once saw Lombardo talk about that song in an interview as an inspiration. It was a big hit in the metal underground and a lot of future thrash drummers listened to it.

Pheew

Ulrich is lame in my personal opinion. He has influence though, but sure as hell not for anything done after 1988. His fills are really boring, and sound pretty awkward. His pedaling is pretty sloppy, while Lombardo's was much smoother. And Ulrich's cymbalwork and more or less laughable.. this is all pretty much opinion though. I'm not trying to lower his spot on the list or anything.

Ariel, you are seriously underrating Lombardo's influence. And most of what he has is indirect influence (as in the drummer didn't name drop him). I see Ringo get more name drops than Lombardo, but in all honesty, you don't hear Ringo's playing in that many people's styles that do credit him. For example, Portnoy credits Ringo as one of his biggest influences... do you hear Ringo in Port's playing? Hell no. Do you hear Lombardo in Portnoy's playing? Most Certainly.

couldn't have said it any better myself.
Now what about Lombardo vs. Blaine?