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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:45 pm 
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ariel wrote:
Wow I'm impressed by Macca.

Wait, why does complexity of drum performances matter? That only is related to the tech skill criteria right? I fear for lists which overly weight tech stuff...IMO having Ringo below Carey/Portnoy would be like having Joe Satch jump Gilmour or something, or Levin jump Bruce (as I stated).

Starr 'maybe' beats Portnoy and Carey in innovation? WTF? What did Portnoy innovate?

Starr pwns Portnoy and Carey in influence, it's a squash. Gets squashed in tech skill. SAFELY beats Port in innovation I'd think, and Carey too even. Versatility...Ringo pwns Portnoy no? Don't know Carey that well. Creativity I'd honestly give Ringo over Portnoy though most would disagree.

Let's forget about Carey for a minute: How in hell does Port beat Starr if the criteria are weighted evenly? Or does tech skill count for more or something?


It's time for A Criteria Breakdown :lol:
Influence- Starr
Innovation- Starr
Skill- Portnoy
Creativity- Portnoy (by a little bit, Starr wasn't that creative he had the same beat in many songs over and over again)
Versatility- Tie

Wait a minute, you're on to something here. If there is a tie then winner goes to influence. STARR BEATS PORTNOY :o
Wait until thejew does a breakdown of his own then maybe it will stand :D
And also, I have to admit that Ringo was held back with The Beatles because the band's technical skills were not that advanced.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:18 am 
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Like the rest of The Beatles, Ringo's skills and overall drumming got better on the later Beatles stuff. He played exactly what the song called for. I mean lots of session men who can play brilliant stuff usually hold back considerably. It's not because the stuff Ringo played sounds so simple he couldn't play more complicated stuff. The other 3 always praised his playing and supposedly he rarely made a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:22 am 
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Doctor_Pik_Jr wrote:
Like the rest of The Beatles, Ringo's skills and overall drumming got better on the later Beatles stuff. He played exactly what the song called for. I mean lots of session men who can play brilliant stuff usually hold back considerably. It's not because the stuff Ringo played sounds so simple he couldn't play more complicated stuff. The other 3 always praised his playing and supposedly he rarely made a mistake.


That's interesting you say that, because Lennon once said that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer on The Beatles


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:15 am 
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BayPineapple wrote:
Doctor_Pik_Jr wrote:
Like the rest of The Beatles, Ringo's skills and overall drumming got better on the later Beatles stuff. He played exactly what the song called for. I mean lots of session men who can play brilliant stuff usually hold back considerably. It's not because the stuff Ringo played sounds so simple he couldn't play more complicated stuff. The other 3 always praised his playing and supposedly he rarely made a mistake.


That's interesting you say that, because Lennon once said that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer on The Beatles


And everything people say is supposed to be taken seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:40 am 
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Interestingly enough:

Influence - Starr
Innovation - Starr
Tech - Portnoy
Creativity - Portnoy
Versatility - Starr

Dammit Portnoy, why can't you play something besides Metal! As much as I don't want to do it, Starr beats out Portnoy. However, I'm confident in saying Starr can't go any higher than that (unless Appice is too high).

Starr v Carey:

Influence - Starr
Innovation/Originality - Carey (use of the tabla, samples etc.)
Tech - Carey
Creativity - Carey
Versatility - probably Carey. I've never heard Ringo play jazz fusion. At the least it's a Tie

So Carey wins, even if you Tie versatility.

And for the record, Bassfreak was a prick, and was overly cocky as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:04 pm 
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BF and I didn't exactly get along well, I won't deny he was a cocky prick. But he was a damn good list moderator, maybe the best ever on this site (Jim was great too).

Glad to see Starr get raised :-)

Now lower Appice!

Also Lennon was joking with that quote.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Reg. Starr/Carey...

Influence - Starr BY FAR
Innovation - I see this going to Starr or at worst a tie.
Versatility - Starr was pretty versatile from what I can tell. Even if Carey wins it's hardly a blowout.
Creativity - Don't know Carey's playing well enough to judge this but Starr was rather creative in the 1965-and-on stuff.
Tech skill - Lol

?

Edit: Just for the record, I wouldn't argue for Starr to go above #10 or #11. That's where I think he should be by the criteria.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:15 pm 
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ariel wrote:
Reg. Starr/Carey...

Influence - Starr BY FAR
Innovation - I see this going to Starr or at worst a tie.
Versatility - Starr was pretty versatile from what I can tell. Even if Carey wins it's hardly a blowout.
Creativity - Don't know Carey's playing well enough to judge this but Starr was rather creative in the 1965-and-on stuff.
Tech skill - Lol

?

Edit: Just for the record, I wouldn't argue for Starr to go above #10 or #11. That's where I think he should be by the criteria.


I think thejew did it perfectly

Influence- Starr (by a mile)
Innovation/Originality- Carey (not by much)
Skill- Carey (by a universe)
Creativity- Carey (by a galaxy)
Versatility- Carey (by a continent)

Also, I knew that Lennon was joking. I just thought it was funny.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:29 pm 
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This doesn't seem unreasonable - your breakdown - but really how does Carey take innovation? That seems fishy to me.

Wikipedia: "Starr is considered to have influenced various modern drumming techniques, such as the matched grip, placing the drums on high risers for visibility as part of the band, tuning the drums lower, and using muffling devices on tonal rings.[2]" (links to Ringo's page on the Percussive Arts Society's Hall of Fame: http://web.archive.org/web/200806170438 ... File=starr)

And Phil Collins on Starr's creativity for shits and giggles: "Starr is vastly underrated. The drum fills on the song "A Day in the Life" are very complex things. You could take a great drummer today and say, 'I want it like that.' He wouldn't know what to do."

I don't think any drummer takes Starr on creativity 'by a galaxy'. I'm not saying he's the most creative drummer ever but he's creative.

Reg. versatility, Carey's played alt/prog metal and jazz fusion, right? Can someone clarify this?


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm 
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ariel wrote:
This doesn't seem unreasonable - your breakdown - but really how does Carey take innovation? That seems fishy to me.

Wikipedia: "Starr is considered to have influenced various modern drumming techniques, such as the matched grip, placing the drums on high risers for visibility as part of the band, tuning the drums lower, and using muffling devices on tonal rings.[2]" (links to Ringo's page on the Percussive Arts Society's Hall of Fame: http://web.archive.org/web/200806170438 ... File=starr)

And Phil Collins on Starr's creativity for shits and giggles: "Starr is vastly underrated. The drum fills on the song "A Day in the Life" are very complex things. You could take a great drummer today and say, 'I want it like that.' He wouldn't know what to do."

I don't think any drummer takes Starr on creativity 'by a galaxy'. I'm not saying he's the most creative drummer ever but he's creative.

Reg. versatility, Carey's played alt/prog metal and jazz fusion, right? Can someone clarify this?


Well even if Starr beats Carey out in innovation, Carey still wins 3-2. Yeah, Carey has played for Tool and recently he recorded an album for a jazz bands. Volto I think is the name.

And also, I am aware of how important Starr is. He was the drummer of my favorite band. However, you have to look at the criteria and Carey wins.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:24 pm 
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thejew wrote:
Interestingly enough:

Influence - Starr
Innovation - Starr
Tech - Portnoy
Creativity - Portnoy
Versatility - Starr

Dammit Portnoy, why can't you play something besides Metal! As much as I don't want to do it, Starr beats out Portnoy. However, I'm confident in saying Starr can't go any higher than that (unless Appice is too high).

Starr v Carey:

Influence - Starr
Innovation/Originality - Carey (use of the tabla, samples etc.)
Tech - Carey
Creativity - Carey
Versatility - probably Carey. I've never heard Ringo play jazz fusion. At the least it's a Tie

So Carey wins, even if you Tie versatility.

And for the record, Bassfreak was a prick, and was overly cocky as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQNw4nbG69s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVCNEij860

You were saying? Portnoy wins on versatility by miles. Those are two of many, by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Location: Matthew McConaughey has won the Oscar for Best Actor in-- "You think you know me..." Shit.
Those were awful examples. Every song was your typical rock and metal drumming. Nothing any different from what he played every night in Dream Theater. Hell, Dream Theater itself showed far more versatility than those covers.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Human wrote:
thejew wrote:
Interestingly enough:

Influence - Starr
Innovation - Starr
Tech - Portnoy
Creativity - Portnoy
Versatility - Starr

Dammit Portnoy, why can't you play something besides Metal! As much as I don't want to do it, Starr beats out Portnoy. However, I'm confident in saying Starr can't go any higher than that (unless Appice is too high).

Starr v Carey:

Influence - Starr
Innovation/Originality - Carey (use of the tabla, samples etc.)
Tech - Carey
Creativity - Carey
Versatility - probably Carey. I've never heard Ringo play jazz fusion. At the least it's a Tie

So Carey wins, even if you Tie versatility.

And for the record, Bassfreak was a prick, and was overly cocky as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQNw4nbG69s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVCNEij860

You were saying? Portnoy wins on versatility by miles. Those are two of many, by the way.


That cover of Sugar mice by Marillion was cow shite


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:09 pm 
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The point is the fact that there is a lot of genres played, not that the covers are great.

I'm not the one trying to push Live not-rock onto a greatest performances studio list. Tony's great though.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Tony?


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