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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Portnoy is a monster behind the kit, but he has little else to his credit besides skill.
Not saying that he TOTALLY lacks creativity, but certainly not on the level on most of those above him.
And he has virtually no innovation/originality at all.

Not quite sure on versatility....Sherick?


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Thomas Pridgen seems pretty low at 111. The guy is absolutely insane. Mindblowingly fast. His groove on Wax Simulacra by Mars Volta would be a nightmare to play. I think he's pretty original too, that groove doesn't really sound like anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:24 am 
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Thomas Pridgen is definitely one of the best around and will be moving way up as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:40 pm 
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I absolutely consider Jackson more creative than Harrison. I can't help but feel CRJ that you really have a bias for Harrison. Things like 'the next Bruford' I think apply more to someone like Carey who is also far more creative than Gavin. Gavin has a lot of innovation but creativity is not the same thing as innovation.

Al Jackson Jr. is a drum god. He's one of the single most important drummers in the history of rock music. One of the integral, Mt. Rushmore of drums guys from the first, greatest generation of rock drummers -- Ringo, Jackson, Blaine, Benjamin.

Creativity also isn't close at all between Harrison and Alexander. Alexander is drum god level of creative, he's god tier. I've never heard anything of Harrison to suggest he's even a contender for top 20 rock creativity much less god tier creativity. Again, I own all of Porcupine Tree's recorded output from the 2000's decade (minus the 2000 album...Lightbulb Sun I think it was? Stupid Dream?).

Are Gavin's innovations important? Fuck yes. He'll be remembered forever for them. But innovation is not the same thing as creativity!

I wouldn't be surprised if Gavin's acclaim and influence increases exponentially over the next 10 or 20 years. If that happens, I could totally see him getting into the top 20 here (yes, 20), or even being a top 20 (maybe top 25) lock. But as things stand right now that would really be overrating things.

Jackson vs Zigaboo, sadly I don't own any Meters yet.

FWIW we agree in the end. Jackson/Zigaboo > Alexander > Harrison. I also propose Portnoy beats Harrison soundly and that Gavin should drop a few more. If this were my list I'd have Gavin right below Collins, McBrain and Taylor. That's an exceptional position no matter how you slice it. He's assured a spot among the very greatest drummers ever for his innovations. But everyone in the top 35 is among the very greatest drummers ever, they're the top tier. IMO it's only once we start hitting guys like Keltner & Matt Cameron that we enter the 'second tier' of all time greatness.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:09 am 
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I agree with a lot of what you say Ariel, though I may be a bit bias to Gavin's creativity. I'm not talking about innovation, just some of what he play just floors me because I don't think any other drummer would possibly approach it that way, similar to Carey, except Carey is far, far more creative. So in the end I guess we do get the same thing:

Jackson > Zigaboo > Alexander > Harrison

I don't think I could move Harrison below McBrain, but I could move him down more I agree. I just placed him there because I was recently watching a ton of his drum clinics and his quality as a drummer astounded me. I don't think Portnoy beats him though. Portnoy only takes Influence as far as I see, and if you think so, creativity but that's not enough.

Also I've heard lots of Beauford but don't know lots about Beauford. Do you guys think Jackson and Zigaboo should beat him and he be right ahead of Alexander (which is where he belongs, right next to Alexander IMO) or does he stay and Jackson come afterwards? I think Jackson beats him with Influence, originality, innovation which is enough to win.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:08 pm 
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Can someone tell me why Jackson is regarded as great?

I've only really heard Green Onions and Melting Pot.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:17 pm 
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souljacker wrote:
Can someone tell me why Jackson is regarded as great?

I've only really heard Green Onions and Melting Pot.

Big Al Jackson had one of the most solid grooves in drum history. Check out virtually any Stax recording from the 60's or anything from Al Green. Jackson set the standard for a solid groove with a heavy accent on the hi hat.

Another drummer missing sadly missing from these lists is MFSB's Earl Young. This guy INVENTED the 4 on the floor disco drum pattern copied by virtually every 70's drummer in that genre. Earl also had one of the most solid R&B drum beats to come along since The Funk Brothers tandem of Benjamin, Pistol, Uriel...


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Location: Matthew McConaughey has won the Oscar for Best Actor in-- "You think you know me..." Shit.
Quote:
This guy INVENTED the 4 on the floor drum pattern


If there one thing in history I could go back and change :lol:

jk jk


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:16 am 
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Sherick wrote:
Quote:
This guy INVENTED the 4 on the floor drum pattern


If there one thing in history I could go back and change :lol:

jk jk


Lol...Like it or not...It FIT, and took a whales tail of talent to come up with. Has nothing to do whether you appreciate the genre or not.

And here's the song that started it all...brilliant...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhtFzdpu ... ata_player


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:37 am 
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More to do with how much that beat inspired modern dance music than with disco itself :geek:

Great song though.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:49 am 
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Sherick wrote:
More to do with how much that beat inspired modern dance music than with disco itself :geek:

Great song though.

Understood...and it actually was created as a Philly R&B track by the MFSB musicians like Young. The early disco producers saw the fit and picked it up and really became the standard of the entire genre through the decade of the 70's.

BTW...the extended dance club version is awesome. Young rat-a-tats it for another 3 minutes or so...


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Location: Fort Lauderdale and Ottawa
Aynsley Dunbar (Journey; Jefferson Starship; The Mothers; Flo and Eddie; Whitesnake)


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:48 pm 
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The OP wrote:
23. Aynsley Dunbar (Frank Zappa, Session)


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:53 pm 
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Classic Rock Junkie wrote:
I agree with a lot of what you say Ariel, though I may be a bit bias to Gavin's creativity. I'm not talking about innovation, just some of what he play just floors me because I don't think any other drummer would possibly approach it that way, similar to Carey, except Carey is far, far more creative. So in the end I guess we do get the same thing:

Jackson > Zigaboo > Alexander > Harrison

I don't think I could move Harrison below McBrain, but I could move him down more I agree. I just placed him there because I was recently watching a ton of his drum clinics and his quality as a drummer astounded me. I don't think Portnoy beats him though. Portnoy only takes Influence as far as I see, and if you think so, creativity but that's not enough.

Also I've heard lots of Beauford but don't know lots about Beauford. Do you guys think Jackson and Zigaboo should beat him and he be right ahead of Alexander (which is where he belongs, right next to Alexander IMO) or does he stay and Jackson come afterwards? I think Jackson beats him with Influence, originality, innovation which is enough to win.


I defo think Portnoy handily beats Gavin.

Influence: Portnoy
Innovation: Gavin
Originality: Gavin
Creativity: Portnoy (honestly)
Skill: Tie?
Versatility: Gavin?

But the influence gap, which is the most important criterion, is fairly large between the two. And Port's versatility is nothing to scoff at either.

McBrain vs Gavin:

Influence: McBrain
Innovation: Gavin
Originality: Gavin
Creativity: McBrain (not that close imo, speaking as a huge Maiden AND Porc Tree fan)
Skill: Gavin heh
Versatility: Gavin?

Again, McBrain's versatility, as Neg has made a point of in the past, is hardly anything to scoff at.

No way in hell Beauford beats Jackson and Ziggy. But he's definitely ahead of Gavin. Right next to Alexander does seem about right to me.

Recently I've been listening to a lot of James Brown on Pandora and his drummer astounds me. Top 30 lock imo. Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Oh, and Stu is right about Earl Young. Important dude.


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