Agree about Ringo, too high, think he's largely there cos he's the drummer in the biggest band of all time.

You don't think Portnoy's creative?

IMO Portnoy ahead of Collins...and below Garibaldi/Mitchell/Shrieve. Both of those seem obvious to me. The question is where he goes between 26 and 27 and how we do that. I don't think it's at all obvious that Portnoy should beat Alexander. But if pressed, I'd say give him 26 and drop Alexander to 27. Just IMO

Shrieve (#25 right now) vs Portnoy...

Influence Shrieve
Innovation Shrieve
Creativity Shrieve
Stylistic Versatility Shrieve
Skill Portnoy
Originality Shrieve

Ouch.

Collins (proposed #28 by CRJ) vs Portnoy...

Influence slight Portnoy?
Innovation Collins
Creativity Portnoy slightly?
Stylistic Versatility Collins
Skill Portnoy (by how much though?)
Originality Collins

Ooh, now we're getting somewhere!

Portnoy vs Beauford (proposed #27 by CRJ)

Influence Portnoy?
Innovation Beauford
Creativity Beauford
Stylistic Versatility Beauford
Skill Portnoy (But by how much?)
Originality Beauford

By the criteria this is another 'ouch'

Portnoy vs Alexander (proposed #26 by CRJ)

Influence uhh Portnoy?
Innovation Alexander
Creativity Alexander
Stylistic Versatility Alexander
Skill Portnoy (but by how much?)
Originality Alexander

Okay, so Portnoy by my reckoning loses to Collins, Beauford and Alexander by the straight criteria, but it's close enough (kinda) between Portnoy and Collins we're starting to see that he's going to end up right around #30. Which is a VERY VERY prestigious place to be as Neg said. It's hardly an insult to be behind giants like Beauford and Alexander. That said my unsolicited opinion is that intangibles should put Portnoy ahead of those two (but behind Shrieve), but what do I know

Portnoy vs McBrain (proposed #31 by CRJ?)

Influence Portnoy?
Innovation uhh
Creativity uhh
Skill Portnoy
Stylistic Versatility uhh
Originality uhh

lol...

CRJ would you mind briefly commenting on my criteria breakdowns in this post? I'm curious how right I am :-P Cheers

His creativity is outstanding imo, from the Justice album as a whole to his stellar groove work and subtle tom use on the Load and ReLoad (and Garage Inc) albums. His influence is otherwordly as is his innovation. Versatility is underrated since he changed his style so much as to be unrecognizable between the 80s and the Load albums. Originality high. Skill underrated by many I would guess (Justice album, again).

Ulrich vs McBrain (proposed #31? by CRJ)...
Influence Ulrich
Innovation Ulrich
Creativity Ulrich
Stylistic Versatility Ulrich
Skill Ulrich
Originality Ulrich

...my word, I had no idea it would end up like that. Do you disagree?

Top 35 for Ulrich imo.

lulz at that entire post Well done

Can you knock it off?

You had me until you started the break down.

Are you for real?

He has creativity in small doses, but nothing to really make you sit back and go "wow".
And I wouldnt call anything he did 'subtle'...lol.



I agree on influence but what did Lars innovate? It was mainly Lombardo who planted the seeds for extreme metal drumming as a whole.



I dont know, he didnt really change his technique much though. He just went from a fast style to a slower style, but it's not like the two are drastically different.



McBrain takes him in skill actually, Lars couldnt play things like Caught Somewhere In Time, not to mention that video you posted of Nicko playing with Bruford a while back (that was fucking phenomenal). I would give Nicko creativity as well.
Other than that, I think I agree.

For the Portnoy breakdowns, I agree with everything except the Collins breakdown. I'd say Collins easily takes creativity and most likely takes influence, Collins is a very influential drummer. For Ulrich Vs. McBrain, I'd say Ulrich only wins Influence...

Yeah Nicko is light years more versatile than Lars, it's not even close.
And he's a little more skilled and creative as well, it's really a no-brainer, imo.

That said, I will always defend Lars as a drummer no matter what.
He kinda gets criticized for being limited and somewhat sloppy, but I've always thought of him as the Keith Moon of heavy metal - raw, uninhibited, nothing but hellacious energy...

Well done.


Influence: McBrain
Innovation: Portnoy I guess
Creativity: Portnoy
Skill: Portnoy
Versatility: Portnoy
Originality: Tie maybe? McBrain's original in the manner that you always know when it's him playing and it really is unreplicable, but Portnoy tends to be pretty out of the box.

Can you knock it off? This is getting ridiculous.

Re: Ulrich v McBrain...

Influence: Lars without question.
Innovation: Lars without question. Lars co innovated thrash drumming and is a keystone of the movement.
Creativity: Close. But why can't this go to Lars? Listen to Blackened, The Shortest Straw, etc. from the early years, and Sabbra Cadabra, 2x4, Until it Sleeps etc. from the later years.
Versatility: What's the serious argument for Nicko being more versatile? Lars drastically changed his style mid career. Has Nicko ever changed his style?
Skill: Maiden songs are very simple on drums, Justice era Metallica songs are difficult. What am I missing here?
Originality: Nicko's basically an unusually creative trad metal drummer in terms of style. Lars' Load and Reload and Garage Inc. era playing is so distinctive I couldn't mistake it for anyone else. Going Lars.

I never said it wasn't close in some categories, and I'll admit creativity could go either way. Sticking with Lars on the whole. I'd appreciate a non trivial answer.

I really can't take you very seriously.

McBrain was not the only Maiden drummer, and he didn't only drum to Maiden songs. I think you need to check out mr. McBrain, he's vastly more skilled than Lars, more creative, and stylistically versatile. He's also more original as far as that can go if we say thrash drums from Lombardo pre dated Lars'. Lars wins Influence, and really only stands a chance in innovation. Since there's no way he wins any of the others, he can't beat McBrain. I'll post some videos later, you just need more McBrain exposure