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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:26 am 
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Paul McCartney:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 11/15
Tech skill 11/15

Geddy Lee:

Influence 7/10
Innovation 12/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 13/15

It looks like a tie...opinions about the scores?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:52 am 
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D.J. wrote:
Paul McCartney:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 11/15
Tech skill 11/15

Geddy Lee:

Influence 7/10
Innovation 12/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 13/15

It looks like a tie...opinions about the scores?


Possibly McCartney should be a little higher in innovation because compared to his peers in Rock he was, IMO, more than one point more innovative than Lee compared to his peers.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:46 am 
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Ssoyd wrote:
D.J. wrote:
Paul McCartney:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 11/15
Tech skill 11/15

Geddy Lee:

Influence 7/10
Innovation 12/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 13/15

It looks like a tie...opinions about the scores?


Possibly McCartney should be a little higher in innovation because compared to his peers in Rock he was, IMO, more than one point more innovative than Lee compared to his peers.


Ok! so Macca is winning this; what do u think about an eventual Jamerson score by these criterias?

John Entwistle:

Influence 9/10
Innovation 15/15
Creativity 15/15
Versatility 13/15
Tech skill 12/15


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:07 pm 
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D.J. wrote:
ariel wrote:
D.J. wrote:
Anyway about JPJ:
Influence 7/10
Innovation 10/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 12/15


Good breakdown on the whole but I'd change it slightly.

I'd give JPJ 8 in influence.
Bassfreak used to argue that JPJ deserves a decent innovation score since he was 'one of the first to elevate the bass in rock'...but I'm not sure how true that is. I'd give JPJ maybe like 10/15 in Innovation.

Creativity no way in hell JPJ gets 13. 13 is demi-god territory. 13 is guys like Levin and the Ox who have very unique, memorable styles that you recognize instantly. JPJ isn't that. JPJ's 12 - he's really excellent, but he doesn't really have a unique 'voice' on the instrument. I'm set on this score.

Versatility...hmm...12/15 sounds reasonable.

Tech skill would be like 11/15

which leads, as a total, to...

53. Your JPJ total was 54.

Hmm.

Well, thanks for your input, those were good scores :-)

Dr Pik -

I know a shitload about bassists, don't doubt me. Never heard of Murray I guess because I don't really follow hard rock

If you want him on the list make a case!


Thanks Ariel! so do you think this list should be totally or partially redone with these scores or not?


I don't know enough about a lot of these guys to redo the list. I could do it, or me and tbcass, or me and tbcass and beaverteeth, with the help of you guys sending songs to us/making song listening recommendations to illuminate some of the guys' versatility, etc. The more people participate the better, by far. That way people can argue for their favorite guys if the list editors/makers don't know enough about those guys and they're threatened with being lowered. And so forth.

Speaking of which...nice to see you 'round here tbcass! I was hoping you'd show up

Geddy is certainly overrated, insofar as a lot of people assume he's the be all end all of rock bass. That's what happens when your band is the most well known 'virtuoso' rock band. Geddy's great but he has nothing on Entwistle, Levin, Macca, Flea, Claypool, etc etc when it comes to talent/creativity. He's still the man though.

D.J. wrote:
Paul McCartney:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 11/15
Tech skill 11/15

Geddy Lee:

Influence 7/10
Innovation 12/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 13/15

It looks like a tie...opinions about the scores?


Lee is a 12 in creativity, and not higher than 10 in innovation as far as I know. What exactly did Lee innovate, other than creating a new bass tone and POSSIBLY being the first 'prog metal' bassist?

Macca is a 14 in creativity. And like a 12-13 in versatility. 10 in tech.

Your scores are pretty much on the mark for Macca. Don't know quite enough about Lee to judge, beyond what I've written (though I suspect 12 might be a bit high in versatility). I think Macca takes it.

D.J. wrote:
Ssoyd wrote:
D.J. wrote:
Paul McCartney:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 11/15
Tech skill 11/15

Geddy Lee:

Influence 7/10
Innovation 12/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 13/15

It looks like a tie...opinions about the scores?


Possibly McCartney should be a little higher in innovation because compared to his peers in Rock he was, IMO, more than one point more innovative than Lee compared to his peers.


Ok! so Macca is winning this; what do u think about an eventual Jamerson score by these criterias?

John Entwistle:

Influence 9/10
Innovation 15/15
Creativity 15/15
Versatility 13/15
Tech skill 12/15


Entwistle...
Influence 10/10
Innovation 14/15 or 15/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 10/15 or 11/15? (unsure)
Tech skill 12/15

Your scores were pretty good.

Jamerson...
Influence 10/10
Innovation 15/15
Creativity 14/15
Versatility 13/15
Tech skill 10/15


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:16 am 
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Why do you think Entwistle's creativity is 13/15 and not 15/15? Are people like Squire or Macca really more creative than him?
Anyway I gave him 9/10 on influence cause I think Jamerson is just a little more influential but it's very close...
So by your scoring we have actually something looking like this:

Jamerson:62
Entwistle:61
McCartney:58
Lee:54 (I'm not sure about his versatility)
JPJ:53


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:43 am 
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Let's try with Bruce and Squire:

Jack Bruce:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 14/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 11/15

Chris Squire:
Influence 7/10
Innovation 11/15
Creativity 14/15
Versatility 11/15
Tech skill 12/15

What about Graham?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Why are you guys ranking stuff out of 15? It seems a little much. I understand the need for things like tie-breakers but goddamn.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:57 pm 
Sodacake wrote:
Why are you guys ranking stuff out of 15? It seems a little much. I understand the need for things like tie-breakers but goddamn.


Last edited by Lennon on Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:27 pm 
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Lennon wrote:
Sodacake wrote:
Why are you guys ranking stuff out of 15? It seems a little much. I understand the need for things like tie-breakers but goddamn.


Shut up sodashit.


Woah there pal, that was a bit harsh.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:06 am 
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D.J. wrote:
Why do you think Entwistle's creativity is 13/15 and not 15/15? Are people like Squire or Macca really more creative than him?
Anyway I gave him 9/10 on influence cause I think Jamerson is just a little more influential but it's very close...
So by your scoring we have actually something looking like this:

Jamerson:62
Entwistle:61
McCartney:58
Lee:54 (I'm not sure about his versatility)
JPJ:53


Yeah Squire and Macca take Entwistle. Entwistle's near-genius or genius, nonetheless. 13 is where we get into genius territory when it comes to the creativity criterion.

Ent and Jamerson both deserve 10/10 on influence. They're the only two who do.

Yeah that looks about right. I stress again though, I don't know quite enough about this stuff to trust my own scores fully. I need other people to fill in the blanks with bassists I don't know as much material by, for instance (Lee, etc. I really don't know enough of The Who's career quite yet to know what the Ox's versatility score would be. I will say even if Ox took Jamerson in scores Jamerson still is a #1 lock, scores aren't everything.).

D.J. wrote:
Let's try with Bruce and Squire:

Jack Bruce:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 14/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 11/15

Chris Squire:
Influence 7/10
Innovation 11/15
Creativity 14/15
Versatility 11/15
Tech skill 12/15

What about Graham?


You tend to come up with pretty good scores :-) Are you a bassist?

Mine:
Bruce:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 12/15
Versatility 14/15
Tech 11/15

...59.

Squire:
Influence 8/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 15/15
Versatility 13/15
Tech 12/15

...61.

Didn't I already do Graham?

Graham:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 15/15
Creativity 12/15
Versatility 13/15
Tech 13/15

...62.

Incidentally this is why strictly following scores leads to crappy lists. If we were to strictly follow the scores Graham would jump Entwistle which would be retarded or Ent might jump Jamerson (not good IMO). Etc etc. The scores are a guideline as Bassfreak used to say


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:18 am 
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ariel wrote:
D.J. wrote:
Why do you think Entwistle's creativity is 13/15 and not 15/15? Are people like Squire or Macca really more creative than him?
Anyway I gave him 9/10 on influence cause I think Jamerson is just a little more influential but it's very close...
So by your scoring we have actually something looking like this:

Jamerson:62
Entwistle:61
McCartney:58
Lee:54 (I'm not sure about his versatility)
JPJ:53


Yeah Squire and Macca take Entwistle. Entwistle's near-genius or genius, nonetheless. 13 is where we get into genius territory when it comes to the creativity criterion.

Ent and Jamerson both deserve 10/10 on influence. They're the only two who do.

Yeah that looks about right. I stress again though, I don't know quite enough about this stuff to trust my own scores fully. I need other people to fill in the blanks with bassists I don't know as much material by, for instance (Lee, etc. I really don't know enough of The Who's career quite yet to know what the Ox's versatility score would be. I will say even if Ox took Jamerson in scores Jamerson still is a #1 lock, scores aren't everything.).

D.J. wrote:
Let's try with Bruce and Squire:

Jack Bruce:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 14/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 11/15

Chris Squire:
Influence 7/10
Innovation 11/15
Creativity 14/15
Versatility 11/15
Tech skill 12/15

What about Graham?


You tend to come up with pretty good scores :-) Are you a bassist?

Mine:
Bruce:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 12/15
Versatility 14/15
Tech 11/15

...59.

Squire:
Influence 8/10
Innovation 13/15
Creativity 15/15
Versatility 13/15
Tech 12/15

...61.

Didn't I already do Graham?

Graham:
Influence 9/10
Innovation 15/15
Creativity 12/15
Versatility 13/15
Tech 13/15

...62.

Incidentally this is why strictly following scores leads to crappy lists. If we were to strictly follow the scores Graham would jump Entwistle which would be retarded or Ent might jump Jamerson (not good IMO). Etc etc. The scores are a guideline as Bassfreak used to say


Well..yes, I like to play bass but it's just an hobby and by the way it's my favourite instrument :cool:
By my scoring I see Bruce taking Squire, I don't see Squire so high about versatility and innovation and I think Bruce is damn creative, he deserves more on creativity;I'm also not sure about Graham versatility...maybe a 12 would fit better for him imo.
Anyway which criterias would you consider for this list instead of scores?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:10 am 
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ariel wrote:

Ent and Jamerson both deserve 10/10 on influence. They're the only two who do.

Yeah that looks about right. I stress again though, I don't know quite enough about this stuff to trust my own scores fully. I need other people to fill in the blanks with bassists I don't know as much material by, for instance (Lee, etc. I really don't know enough of The Who's career quite yet to know what the Ox's versatility score would be. I will say even if Ox took Jamerson in scores Jamerson still is a #1 lock, scores aren't everything.).


Versatility is probably Entwistle's weakest point. He played one style of music with one band with occasional excursions on his own playing very similar material. McCartney and Jamerson played a much wider range of material.

Jamerson would definitely be #1 in influence while McCartney could very well be #2.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:22 am 
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I think versatility is not just the variety of musical genres but also the role of the bass into the band sound if i recall correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:26 am 
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That's from the old forum:
Versatility: Versatility refers to not only versatility of musical genres, but also versatility in musical roles. Just like a guitarist is more highly regarded if he or she can perform well as a rhythm or lead player, it's the same with bassists. Bassists are the glue that holds the band together, and if the bassist can't fit in wherever the band, as a unit, needs them, they are not being very much of an asset to the band. Also included in this is instrumental versatility. This means playing a stringed instrument, besides bass guitar, in the role of a bass.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:40 am 
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D.J. wrote:
That's from the old forum:
Versatility: Versatility refers to not only versatility of musical genres, but also versatility in musical roles. Just like a guitarist is more highly regarded if he or she can perform well as a rhythm or lead player, it's the same with bassists. Bassists are the glue that holds the band together, and if the bassist can't fit in wherever the band, as a unit, needs them, they are not being very much of an asset to the band. Also included in this is instrumental versatility. This means playing a stringed instrument, besides bass guitar, in the role of a bass.


I'm not sure what all that means. Versatility in musical roles? Maybe the ability to play solos? Bassist can't fit in wherever the band needs them? That would be a basic function of any bassist. For instance to play melodic harmony where needed or lay down a simple groove where needed. All great bassists should be able to do that. That leaves, as far as I'm concerned, the ability to play well a wide variety of types of music within a genre as well as more than one genre as the most important indication of versatility.


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