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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:05 pm 
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JPJ wipes the floor with Geezer.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:14 pm 
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Not by these criteria he doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Doctor_Pik_Jr wrote:
JPJ wipes the floor with Geezer.


I don't think that is true. Butler IS the greatest metal bass guitarist of all time and certainly the most influential. Also, ariel is right, Butler beats JPJ when you break down the criteria between the two.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:53 pm 
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Neil Murray: do you think he could be on this list?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Murra ... h_musician)

I know Wikipedia isn't the best source of info, but there's the bands he's played with.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:18 am 
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Looks like Murray has some nasty versatility but I'd need more than that to go off of. Props for bringing up an unknown name rather than going 'raise [famous person] dammit!'


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:28 am 
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ariel wrote:
NO on JPJ (and on Deacon too). This was debated exhaustively on the old forum and JPJ tends to be considerably overrated on 'greatest' lists because he was in Zeppelin. He probably benefits more from the 'being in a great band' stature effect than any other prominent bassist. He was #22 I think on the old list and he deserves no higher than high in the 20s...or very low in the teens (like #19 or 20). And I love JPJ, he's the shit.

Deaky's fucking brilliant but by the criteria I can't see him getting higher than the 20s or 30s. As Bassfreak used to say, if you want someone raised argue by the criteria don't just come in and say 'raise x!' No offense


This reminds me to many other musicians, the first I can think of is Ringo Starr...I always believed he's really overrated thanks to Beatles popularity but I rarely have seen anyone complaining about it.
I think JPJ totally deserves to be at least in the 15-20 range cause he was really a great bassist aside from being a Led Zeppelin member and he's still today a fine player as you know for sure considering his post LZ's years.
As for Deaky I can see him to fit into the 20-25 range.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:37 am 
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D.J. wrote:
ariel wrote:
NO on JPJ (and on Deacon too). This was debated exhaustively on the old forum and JPJ tends to be considerably overrated on 'greatest' lists because he was in Zeppelin. He probably benefits more from the 'being in a great band' stature effect than any other prominent bassist. He was #22 I think on the old list and he deserves no higher than high in the 20s...or very low in the teens (like #19 or 20). And I love JPJ, he's the shit.

Deaky's fucking brilliant but by the criteria I can't see him getting higher than the 20s or 30s. As Bassfreak used to say, if you want someone raised argue by the criteria don't just come in and say 'raise x!' No offense


This reminds me to many other musicians, the first I can think of is Ringo Starr...I always believed he's really overrated thanks to Beatles popularity but I rarely have seen anyone complaining about it.
I think JPJ totally deserves to be at least in the 15-20 range cause he was really a great bassist aside from being a Led Zeppelin member and he's still today a fine player as you know for sure considering his post LZ's years.
As for Deaky I can see him to fit into the 20-25 range.


Ringo isn't overrated at all. If anything he is underrated. If you want to know why he is so great go to the drummers section because I am starting to get off topic.
Anyways, Chris Squire is my personal favorite bass player. Any chance he moves ahead of Graham?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:56 am 
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BayPineapple wrote:
D.J. wrote:
ariel wrote:
NO on JPJ (and on Deacon too). This was debated exhaustively on the old forum and JPJ tends to be considerably overrated on 'greatest' lists because he was in Zeppelin. He probably benefits more from the 'being in a great band' stature effect than any other prominent bassist. He was #22 I think on the old list and he deserves no higher than high in the 20s...or very low in the teens (like #19 or 20). And I love JPJ, he's the shit.

Deaky's fucking brilliant but by the criteria I can't see him getting higher than the 20s or 30s. As Bassfreak used to say, if you want someone raised argue by the criteria don't just come in and say 'raise x!' No offense


This reminds me to many other musicians, the first I can think of is Ringo Starr...I always believed he's really overrated thanks to Beatles popularity but I rarely have seen anyone complaining about it.
I think JPJ totally deserves to be at least in the 15-20 range cause he was really a great bassist aside from being a Led Zeppelin member and he's still today a fine player as you know for sure considering his post LZ's years.
As for Deaky I can see him to fit into the 20-25 range.


Ringo isn't overrated at all. If anything he is underrated. If you want to know why he is so great go to the drummers section because I am starting to get off topic.
Anyways, Chris Squire is my personal favorite bass player. Any chance he moves ahead of Graham?


Well Ringo is #13 on the greatest drummers list so he's not too much underrated as well; and even if he's not overrated (I think he is) it's really one of the cases (maybe the more emblematic case) where greatness of the band helped out some of its member.
Anyway I'll check now the drummer section ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:31 pm 
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D.J. if you want someone raised give an argument.

Squire's a genius but it's fairly unlikely he gets raised above Graham I'd reckon...G.'s influence is just insane.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:50 pm 
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My Top Five Favorite Bass Players
1. Chris Squire
2. James Jamerson
3. John Entwistle
4. Tony Levin
5. Paul McCartney

Speaking of McCartney, does anybody think he is better than Lee?
Ariel, could you do a criteria breakdown. From what I have seen you know a lot about the bass


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:11 pm 
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ariel wrote:
D.J. if you want someone raised give an argument.

Squire's a genius but it's fairly unlikely he gets raised above Graham I'd reckon...G.'s influence is just insane.


I made some good arguments about Deaky on the old forum and JPJ is highly regarded on mostly greatest bassists polls so I'd not put anything new on the table about him.
Anyway I think a score point would be the best way to make a ranking here, just like for the drummers.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:31 pm 
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ariel wrote:
Looks like Murray has some nasty versatility but I'd need more than that to go off of. Props for bringing up an unknown name rather than going 'raise [famous person] dammit!'


If I find anything great by him, i'll post it. I just thought it would be more interestion adding a less well know, but good bassist. It's also a change from hearing "GEDDY LEE!!!" "PAUL MCCARTNEY!!!" "CHRIS SQUIRE!!!" "JAMES JAMERSON!!" all the time, like you said.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:11 pm 
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BayPineapple wrote:
My Top Five Favorite Bass Players
1. Chris Squire
2. James Jamerson
3. John Entwistle
4. Tony Levin
5. Paul McCartney

Speaking of McCartney, does anybody think he is better than Lee?
Ariel, could you do a criteria breakdown. From what I have seen you know a lot about the bass


Thanks :-)

Influence
Squire 7/10 or 8/10
Graham 9/10 or 10/10

Innovation
Squire 13/15 or something
Graham 14/15 or 15/15

Creativity
Squire 15/15
Graham 13/15 or something

Versatility
Squire 12/15 or 13/15
Graham not sure but from what I remember hearing about him...13/15 or something

Tech skill
Squire 12/15
Graham 13/15

Let's see...
Squire is somewhere around 59-61 total points
Graham is somewhere around 62-64

:-( Pretty close though, but I don't see S. going ahead

Oh yeah...McCartney is clearly more talented than Lee and better. Whether he could be raised over Lee is a good question. Let's see...

Influence -
Macca 8/10
Lee 7/10 or something

Innovation -
Macca 13/15 or something
Lee 11/15? (don't know enough about Lee here)

Creativity -
Macca 14/15
Lee 12/15

Tech skill -
Macca 10/15
Lee 12/15

Versatility -
Macca - 12/15 or 13/15
Lee - ? don't know Rush discography well enough someone enlighten me here. Let's be nice and say Lee randomly gets assigned like a 11/15 or something

Totals:
Macca 57-58 total points
Lee 53 total points (?)

I need someone who knows more about Lee than I to assign points to him. But *I'd* based on what I currently know have Macca higher.

PS Gotta give credit where credit is due and admit some of these point assignments are based on my memory (which is very clear) of Bassfreak's old point assignments...others aren't, where I either disagree with him or forget his point assignments. I'm not just copying all his scores though, only the ones which seemed reasonable to me and which I remember clearly.


Last edited by Ariel on Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:12 pm 
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D.J. wrote:
ariel wrote:
D.J. if you want someone raised give an argument.

Squire's a genius but it's fairly unlikely he gets raised above Graham I'd reckon...G.'s influence is just insane.


I made some good arguments about Deaky on the old forum and JPJ is highly regarded on mostly greatest bassists polls so I'd not put anything new on the table about him.
Anyway I think a score point would be the best way to make a ranking here, just like for the drummers.


I think the best way is the way I just did it with Squire vs. Graham...Bassfreak's old way.

JPJ's partly highly regarded because most people who've heard his work haven't heard the work of better, lesser known guys. IMO. I'd still give him a solid 12/15 on creativity though and that's nothing to scoff at.

Keithmoonisgod -

Lol.

From what I remember on the old forum the guys most often asked to be raised in 'raise [x]!' posts were like...Lee, Claypool, JPJ. And Cliff Burton


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:04 am 
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ariel wrote:
D.J. wrote:
ariel wrote:
D.J. if you want someone raised give an argument.

Squire's a genius but it's fairly unlikely he gets raised above Graham I'd reckon...G.'s influence is just insane.


I made some good arguments about Deaky on the old forum and JPJ is highly regarded on mostly greatest bassists polls so I'd not put anything new on the table about him.
Anyway I think a score point would be the best way to make a ranking here, just like for the drummers.


I think the best way is the way I just did it with Squire vs. Graham...Bassfreak's old way.

JPJ's partly highly regarded because most people who've heard his work haven't heard the work of better, lesser known guys. IMO. I'd still give him a solid 12/15 on creativity though and that's nothing to scoff at.

Keithmoonisgod -

Lol.

From what I remember on the old forum the guys most often asked to be raised in 'raise [x]!' posts were like...Lee, Claypool, JPJ. And Cliff Burton


I think that would be perfect.

Anyway about JPJ:
Influence 7/10
Innovation 10/15
Creativity 13/15
Versatility 12/15
Tech skill 12/15


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