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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Ariel wrote:
Ssoyd's admitted his issue with him is in part a distaste for the use of bass effects, which is totally fair but a subjective thing that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Burton.


I don't have a distaste for bass effects. I just don't think, aside from the effects, that Burton was all that great a bass player. His body of work just doesn't impress me.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:47 pm 
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SanTropez wrote:
StuBass wrote:
SanTropez wrote:
Uh, ok. I'm not sure what that was in response to, but it certainly wasn't anything I said.

ROTFLMAO

Laugh all you want, but my comment you responded to was not concerning the Lesh/Casady debate, it was about you stating that "Lesh turned what could have been boring into interesting interpretations... especially those "deadheads" who needed a significant bottom end throb to free the hallucinegenic impulses beating on their brain. " That's ridiculous.


I agree that the Dead tended to be tedious and boring but just my opinion. I had a friend who went to a GD concert because his girlfriend liked them. He said he slept through almost the whole thing!! :sleep:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Ssoyd wrote:
SanTropez wrote:
StuBass wrote:
SanTropez wrote:
Uh, ok. I'm not sure what that was in response to, but it certainly wasn't anything I said.

ROTFLMAO

Laugh all you want, but my comment you responded to was not concerning the Lesh/Casady debate, it was about you stating that "Lesh turned what could have been boring into interesting interpretations... especially those "deadheads" who needed a significant bottom end throb to free the hallucinegenic impulses beating on their brain. " That's ridiculous.


I agree that the Dead tended to be tedious and boring but just my opinion. I had a friend who went to a GD concert because his girlfriend liked them. He said he slept through almost the whole thing!! :sleep:
Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on that. Unless your friend is a narcoleptic, I find it extremely hard to believe he slept through almost an entire concert of loud, and (yes, whether you believe it or not) often times rocking music, with lights and people dancing their asses off. Sounds like revisionist history to me. Or maybe he had too much to drink before the show or something.

edit: unless he went to a show in like 94 or 95, in which case he just had bad luck.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:36 pm 
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SanTropez wrote:
]Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on that. Unless your friend is a narcoleptic, I find it extremely hard to believe he slept through almost an entire concert of loud, and (yes, whether you believe it or not) often times rocking music, with lights and people dancing their asses off. Sounds like revisionist history to me. Or maybe he had too much to drink before the show or something.

edit: unless he went to a show in like 94 or 95, in which case he just had bad luck.


It was in the early 80's.

Look buddy, you are getting off to a pretty bad start here. First you insult Stu who is a long time and respected poster and now you call me a liar. It's time to cut the attitude. I'm not lying. It's the truth and that's the end of it. If you knew my friend you would know that when he was bored he could have easily slept through the concert. So could I. From listening to recordings of live GD I can assure you I find their music very boring. Listening to hours of improvisation off 2 chords at the same mid tempo is not my idea of a good time. I can enjoy it for 10-15 minutes and that is it. The Dead were great musicians. They were just not for me.

If you want to continue on this forum treat people with respect even if you disagree with them.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:22 pm 
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Are you kidding me? Stu has been a dick from the outset and continues to get worse and worse. His crude generalization of Dead Heads and the band was uncalled for and his attitude since that has gone south in a big hurry. I didn't even respond to his last 2 very negative posts.

And to dismiss live Dead as hours of improv over 2 chords at mid-tempo is just flatout false.

I can understand people not liking their music, but the reasons stated here are questionable at best.

Also, it seems pretty petty to bring it up in the first place, but I've been on DDD just as long as Stu. I usually don't venture this far north to the music lists, but I felt obligated to give one of my favorite musicians the respect he deserves.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Wow what happened here? Where's our constructive discussion? :lol:

Ariel, if you're out there, I'd love to hear your opinions on Casady/Lesh (after listening to the links posted for each)....among other things.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:48 pm 
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SanTropez wrote:
Are you kidding me? Stu has been a dick from the outset and continues to get worse and worse. His crude generalization of Dead Heads and the band was uncalled for and his attitude since that has gone south in a big hurry. I didn't even respond to his last 2 very negative posts.

And to dismiss live Dead as hours of improv over 2 chords at mid-tempo is just flatout false.

I can understand people not liking their music, but the reasons stated here are questionable at best.

Also, it seems pretty petty to bring it up in the first place, but I've been on DDD just as long as Stu. I usually don't venture this far north to the music lists, but I felt obligated to give one of my favorite musicians the respect he deserves.


Dude...Let me say this one time and one time only. We welcome folks to join the discussion and debate for The Greatest Bassist list. People who are respectful to others and state their opinions with class, dignity, and hopefully a bit of humor. You picked up on something I said NOT about you (I don't even know who you are), and decided to make it personal. You wanna make it personal and I'll be all over you like a Pit Bull on a pork chop. Take your fanboy shit somewhere else since you obviously have no perspective or objectivity so far as The Grateful Dead are concerned...and CERTAINLY have no sense of humor. Join in the discussion respectfully or get the hell out.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Wow what happened here? Where's our constructive discussion? :lol:

Ariel, if you're out there, I'd love to hear your opinions on Casady/Lesh (after listening to the links posted for each)....among other things.


I really think we've beat this Casady/Lesh debate to death...the better part of a month for two slots. At that rate by the time we get to 100, Melia Obama will be running for President Of The United States. Those two players are different enough to make the picks and MOVE ON. For every nice Lesh performance, there'll be another Casady one...and vice versa, and as evidenced here today, the arguments will go from constructive to ridiculous. Can we move on please.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:18 pm 
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StuBass wrote:
SanTropez wrote:
Are you kidding me? Stu has been a dick from the outset and continues to get worse and worse. His crude generalization of Dead Heads and the band was uncalled for and his attitude since that has gone south in a big hurry. I didn't even respond to his last 2 very negative posts.

And to dismiss live Dead as hours of improv over 2 chords at mid-tempo is just flatout false.

I can understand people not liking their music, but the reasons stated here are questionable at best.

Also, it seems pretty petty to bring it up in the first place, but I've been on DDD just as long as Stu. I usually don't venture this far north to the music lists, but I felt obligated to give one of my favorite musicians the respect he deserves.


Dude...Let me say this one time and one time only. We welcome folks to join the discussion and debate for The Greatest Bassist list. People who are respectful to others and state their opinions with class, dignity, and hopefully a bit of humor. You picked up on something I said NOT about you (I don't even know who you are), and decided to make it personal. You wanna make it personal and I'll be all over you like a Pit Bull on a pork chop. Take your fanboy shit somewhere else since you obviously have no perspective or objectivity so far as The Grateful Dead are concerned...and CERTAINLY have no sense of humor. Join in the discussion respectfully or get the hell out.
Get over yourself. You've been far from a saint in this. Don't play innocent.

I tried to move on and post some clips to generate some useful discussion and you kept going. So, for the second time...

...anyways, I appreciate Josh and some others for taking the time to watch/listen to at least some of the clips and judge them on their own merit as opposed to using preconcieved notions. It looks there were some pleasant surprises for some. Same for the clips of Casady. It looks like 2 underappreciated bassists got some quality time in the DDD spotlight. I value that much more than actually determining who gets what spot where on a mostly subjective list. I mean, isn't that what it really boils down to, enjoying and discovering music?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:54 pm 
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You're one of the very few (if any) Dead fans who refuses to acknowledge the correlation between acid (LSD in particular) and the formation, cultural significance, and musical importance to The Dead and psychedelia in general and gets insulted by that fact. Read any biography of the band and it's quite obvious. It's like a Bob Marley fan being insulted by mentioning that Marley liked to smoke weed.

As for sharing audio cuts ad nausium for the purpose of compiling this list...there are other threads to celebrate and share all the music samples one wishes to share and enjoy. Our mission here is to finish reconstructing the list of the 100 Greatest Bass Guitarists in Rock. One or two examples of someones performance should justify someones placement, along with history, impact, etc. If you want to start a Phil Lesh thread and post all the Lesh basslines you wish, by all means have at it. Doing that on this thread will accomplish nothing but delaying our mission of completing this list this millenium. This is not a list devoted to any specific player, band, or sub-genre, but a way to consider the top 100 players out of hundreds of potential candidates...particularly once we get out of the top 10. Otherwise, this list will NEVER be completed. Several of us have already spent months working on this list and we appear to be getting hung up on two slots. It's time for our well qualified moderator to get this thing moving along.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:01 pm 
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Knock it off SanTropez.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Back to the discussion...

StuBass wrote:
I still don't quite see dropping (or eliminating) Ready Freddie from the list. If you asked any top L.A. studio musician to name the top 3 bassists on the L.A. scene today (and over the past 20 years)... Freddie would be on practically every list and his reputation grows with every project and each tour he takes part in


Oh I don't mean to drop him! He won't be dropped, that would be ridiculous. No I just mean lowering his spot. He's very worthy of respect but the problem is a late era (most of the moving and pushing in bass innovation was in the 60s and 70s as you yourself said), session guy can be very good, very creative, an excellent and brilliant bassist but still not score that well in 'greatness'...and that's what I'm paid to assess :smile:

His acclaim/respect within the community, discography, and notable work(s) guarantee him a spot on here though. Just not a 30s spot :tongue:

StuBass wrote:
.. Also...you know my feelings on David Hungate.


High acclaim/respect. Consistent, versatile, professional, and not without significant talent. Widely recorded, including in the core work of one of the more popular rock bands ever. All of this adds up to a spot on this list. But not a top 40 spot imo

StuBass wrote:
Also, David Hood should be an absolute addition to the list IMO. I agree with the statement that the 60's and 70's had more than their fair share of influential and impactful bassists. Those guys really set the standard, and in rock, I really don't see much real advancement on bass since those days...fusion being another matter.


This is largely correct...if I had to put a number I'd say between 70 and 75 percent of the moving and pushing in the bass world happened in the 60s/70s...but there are to be sure still some epic dudes much later (Harris, Burton, Hamm, Billy, Freeman, Watt, Chancellor, etc). Hood is a noteworthy and important figure in that 60s/70s 'laying the groundwork' period on bass. It's all but assured he'll get a spot on this list.

StuBass wrote:
Jamerson lll for the 100 spot would be a largely symbolic gesture (I admit), although he's an excellent bassist and probably understands his dads technique and mindset better than anyone out there today, and readily shares his knowledge with others...plus he's quite versatile.


I actually have no problem with symbolic gestures, fwiw. He'll possibly make the 'honorable mentions' list we'll do after filling up the first 100 spots


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Ssoyd wrote:
Malmsteen on Bass?


I'd prefer not having to worry about him but his playing is just stellar, inventive and creative. I was surprised too.

Ssoyd wrote:
Touch certainly did some interesting music for the time and it is similar to what The Vanilla Fudge was getting into at the time only without the Fudges vocals. We called it Psychedelic or Progressive Rock back then. Here's some psychedelic Fudge to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tCeGdOjWdw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_iHSt0pNIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkN68N1Y9Yo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-9Jx3PN ... re=related


Oh you've sold me on the Fudge good sir! I actually have been bugging my local used record store about them and they don't have any Fudge in their voluminous collection for some reason. I'll have to buy their albums online, which I will do. I've come to like their style a lot too, and not just their bass.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:44 pm 
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StuBass wrote:
Completely agree on "importance" Ssoyd, however, since Jaco...there really have been few new innovations on bass...save some electronics and other artifical means experimented by guys like Bootsy for example. So long as there are a finite number of strings and frets, innovation is at the mercy of advancements in the overall genre. Otherwise...it's largely playing the same notes and timings...just in a different order, in different places. In other words...not much changing but the changes. The real advancements therefore are somewhat limited to the technical skill of a given player and perhaps versatility. Innovation and impact appears to hark back to the earlier generations IMO.


I consider the following post 70s guys truly innovative on bass (rock guys):

Harris, Burton, Freeman, Flea, Rourke, Hook, Watt, Claypool, Chancellor, Levin, DiGiorgio, Patterson, Choy, Thesseling, Sheehan, Hamm. And there are probably more that I'm not thinking of right now /shrug


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:57 pm 
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On a broader note:

25-29 spots!

"Duck Dunn, Babbitt, Louis and probably Abe" was what I wrote last time as far as people who I get the feeling deserve to occupy this range.

Will Lee is currently in the 25-29 spots. What do you think Stu, does he deserve to remain in this region too? How about Chen? Fill me in! (Er, refresh my memory a bit, give me some quick pointers, then I'll do some research online. Sorry)

I have no idea how to order Dunn/Babbitt/Louis/Abe. No, the fact that Dunn just died will not affect any of this. Tragedy but it wouldn't be fair to let that cloud our judgment imo.


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