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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:16 pm 
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So, where do we stand???

People who might need to be lowered (to varying degrees), OR dropped off the list:
- Oteil Burbridge
- David Hungate
- Nathan Watts
- Nathan East
- Dave LaRue
- Will Lee
- Freddie Washington
- Bobby Sheehan
- Rex Brown
- Michael LePond
- Leo Lyons
- the Eagles guy
- Ron Wood
- Billy Gould
- Marshall Lytle
- Billy Cox
- Phil Lynott
- Trey Gunn (i.e., is he a bass player?)
- Willie Dixon
- Bill Black
- Duff McKagan

People who probably will in fact be DROPPED OFF the list:
- Bill Black
- Willie Dixon
- Billy Cox
- Ron Wood
- Michael LePond
- Leo Lyons

People who might need to be RAISED on the list:
- Pino Palladino
- Tim Bogert
- Tommy Cogbill
- Bootsy Collins
- John Wetton
- Greg Lake
- Mark King
- Mike Watt
- Bernard Odum
- George Porter Jr.
- Mike Gordon
- Bernard Edwards
- Trey Gunn (seriously)
- Roger Glover
- Mike Rutherford
- David Ellefson
- Matt Freeman
- Ronnie Baker
- Juan Alderete
- Robert Trujillo
- Tim Commerford
- Dug Pinnick
- Bill Wyman

Possible ADDITIONS to the list:
- Brian Ritchie (Violent Femmes)
- Herbie Flowers (session man)
- Fernando Saunders (session man)
- Tony Newton (session man)
- David Hood (session man)
- James Jamerson III (session man)
- Simon Gallup (The Cure)
- Mark Sandman (Morphine)
- Colin Greenwood (Radiohead)
- Mark Hoppus (Blink 182) (eww)
- Andy Rourke (Smiths)
- Mike Dirnt (Green Day)
- Randy Coven (Steve Vai, solo)
- Jason Newsted (Metallica, Flotsam and Jetsam, Voivod)
- Chris Wolstenholme (Muse)
- Peter Hook (Joy Division, New Order)
- Paul Simonon (The Clash)
- Audie Pitre (Acid Bath)
- Martin Turner (Wishbone Ash)
- Tina Weymouth (Talking Heads)
- Jeroen Paul Thesseling (Obscura)
- Tony Choy (Atheist)
- Sean Malone (Cynic)
- Ray Shulman (Gentle Giant)
- Sting (The Police, solo)
- Roger Waters (Pink Floyd, solo)
- Stuart Zender (Jamiroquai)
- P-Nut (311)
- Jean-Yves 'Blacky' Theriault (Voivod)
- JJ Burnel (Stranglers)
- John Taylor (Duran Duran)
- Nick Beggs (Kajagoogoo)
- Lemmy Kilmister (Motorhead)
- Frank Bello (Anthrax)
- Pete Trewavas (Marillion)
- Dee Murray (Elton John)
- Alex Webster (Cannibal Corpse)
- Glenn Hughes (Deep Purple)
- Yngwie Malmsteen (double eww)

Probable/nearly-certain-to-be-added list candidates:
- Steve DiGiorgio (Death, session man)
- Roger Patterson (Atheist)
- Peter Cetera (Chicago)
- Brian Wilson (The Beach Boys/bass composer)
- Gary Thain (Uriah Heep)

Are they 'rock' enough to stay on the list, or not?:
- Marcus Miller

Who else should move down from the 'possibles' to the 'probables' among list candidates?

Also...there are currently SIX open spots on the list. Counting all the 'they'll probably be let go' people added, that makes a total of TWELVE open spots on the list. I think everyone agreed that DiGiorgio, Patterson and Cetera should be added, same with Thain, and I can't take a list like this seriously without Brian Wilson on it. What other 7 dudes should also make the cut? Who else should be dropped among the 'possible drops' people?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:19 pm 
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So...spots 25-29...

As I mentioned briefly before, my intuition is that Duck Dunn, Babbitt, Louis and probably Abe deserve spots in this range. Who else does? Am I overrating any of those dudes, should someone else take their place in my projected 25-29? How would y'all order the dudes I mentioned?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Ariel wrote:
Changing to list on page one to read:

18. Phil Lesh
19. Jack Casady
20. Cliff Burton
21. Steve Harris
22. Stuart Hamm
23. John Deacon
24. Aston "Family Man" Barrett

Done. Spots 25-28 have the people, in the order (who was highest, who was second highest etc) they were in, who were bumped out of 18-24!


One last thing about this, maybe Deacon and Hamm could switch and we really need more opinions about Burton's ranking, I don't see many people agreeing with it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Good to see you're hard at work Ariel :biggrin: . Once we move past this Casady/Lesh (likely unsolvable) debate...we can move on. I still don't quite see dropping (or eliminating) Ready Freddie from the list. If you asked any top L.A. studio musician to name the top 3 bassists on the L.A. scene today (and over the past 20 years)... Freddie would be on practically every list and his reputation grows with every project and each tour he takes part in.. Also...you know my feelings on David Hungate. Also, David Hood should be an absolute addition to the list IMO. I agree with the statement that the 60's and 70's had more than their fair share of influential and impactful bassists. Those guys really set the standard, and in rock, I really don't see much real advancement on bass since those days...fusion being another matter. Jamerson lll for the 100 spot would be a largely symbolic gesture (I admit), although he's an excellent bassist and probably understands his dads technique and mindset better than anyone out there today, and readily shares his knowledge with others...plus he's quite versatile.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:07 pm 
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[quote="Ariel"]
- Yngwie Malmsteen (double eww)

Malmsteen on Bass?

Touch certainly did some interesting music for the time and it is similar to what The Vanilla Fudge was getting into at the time only without the Fudges vocals. We called it Psychedelic or Progressive Rock back then. Here's some psychedelic Fudge to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tCeGdOjWdw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_iHSt0pNIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkN68N1Y9Yo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-9Jx3PN ... re=related


Last edited by Ssoyd on Fri May 11, 2012 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Sooooo, it's been a long time since I listened to the 'Live/Dead' album, and man I nearly forgot how incredible "Dark Star" is.
Lesh is fantastic throughout, what a great harmonic counterpoint his bass is:



*Parts 2 and 3 are also in the related videos*


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:01 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Sooooo, it's been a long time since I listened to the 'Live/Dead' album, and man I nearly forgot how incredible "Dark Star" is.
Lesh is fantastic throughout, what a great harmonic counterpoint his bass is:


That album got rave critical reviews back then and established The Dead as more than some "hippy" band. Jerry Garcia's guitar is impressive as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:06 am 
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StuBass wrote:
I agree with the statement that the 60's and 70's had more than their fair share of influential and impactful bassists. Those guys really set the standard, and in rock, I really don't see much real advancement on bass since those days...fusion being another matter. Jamerson lll for the 100 spot would be a largely symbolic gesture (I admit), although he's an excellent bassist and probably understands his dads technique and mindset better than anyone out there today, and readily shares his knowledge with others...plus he's quite versatile.


Jamerson set the stage and it seems that once the door to the possibilities was open the bass became just as important as guitar in rock music.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:54 am 
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Ssoyd wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
Sooooo, it's been a long time since I listened to the 'Live/Dead' album, and man I nearly forgot how incredible "Dark Star" is.
Lesh is fantastic throughout, what a great harmonic counterpoint his bass is:


That album got rave critical reviews back then and established The Dead as more than some "hippy" band. Jerry Garcia's guitar is impressive as well.


Jerry has one of the best tones of any rock guitarist ever. Absolutely exquisite.

I think Live/Dead is probably one of the 10-15 greatest live rock albums, without hesitation. It's funny 'cause I'm usually the one criticizing The Dead for being "boring" (which they were a lot of times), but on that album they were just totally ON. It's an incredible trip from beginning to end.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:07 am 
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Ssoyd wrote:
StuBass wrote:
I agree with the statement that the 60's and 70's had more than their fair share of influential and impactful bassists. Those guys really set the standard, and in rock, I really don't see much real advancement on bass since those days...fusion being another matter. Jamerson lll for the 100 spot would be a largely symbolic gesture (I admit), although he's an excellent bassist and probably understands his dads technique and mindset better than anyone out there today, and readily shares his knowledge with others...plus he's quite versatile.


Jamerson set the stage and it seems that once the door to the possibilities was open the bass became just as important as guitar in rock music.

Completely agree on "importance" Ssoyd, however, since Jaco...there really have been few new innovations on bass...save some electronics and other artifical means experimented by guys like Bootsy for example. So long as there are a finite number of strings and frets, innovation is at the mercy of advancements in the overall genre. Otherwise...it's largely playing the same notes and timings...just in a different order, in different places. In other words...not much changing but the changes. The real advancements therefore are somewhat limited to the technical skill of a given player and perhaps versatility. Innovation and impact appears to hark back to the earlier generations IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:41 pm 
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StuBass wrote:
Ssoyd wrote:
StuBass wrote:

Completely agree on "importance" Ssoyd, however, since Jaco...there really have been few new innovations on bass...save some electronics and other artificial means experimented by guys like Bootsy for example. So long as there are a finite number of strings and frets, innovation is at the mercy of advancements in the overall genre. Otherwise...it's largely playing the same notes and timings...just in a different order, in different places. In other words...not much changing but the changes. The real advancements therefore are somewhat limited to the technical skill of a given player and perhaps versatility. Innovation and impact appears to hark back to the earlier generations IMO.


I have to agree 100% except that the # of strings and frets don't limit the possibilities (after all adding more only allows you to play more octaves) as much as the Western 12 tone system Rock music is based on which of course determines the position of the frets. Statistically there are 479,001,600 different combinations with 12 notes but you are further limited by what key you are playing in and what particular chord is being played at the moment as well as what the next chord will be in the progression. I play fretless but I'm still limited to what people will accept as sounding "good" so all those positions in between where the frets would fall are considered "wrong" if they aren't compatible with everybody else's tuning.

Now throw in the rhythm and the way the player decides to play around with it. Jamerson's main contribution IMO was actually more in the way he used syncopation and cut time than the actual notes he played. Jamerson was a Jazz player so I think that his introduction of cut time and syncopation, both common in Jazz, was his main contribution to Rock Bass.


Last edited by Ssoyd on Sat May 12, 2012 5:12 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Gotta love Glover's distorted bass at 1:50.
This is suuuuuuch a wicked song in general.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:29 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:

Gotta love Glover's distorted bass at 1:50.
This is suuuuuuch a wicked song in general.


My favorite Glover moment is the little solo in "Pictures of Home" off the Machine Head Album starting at 3:40.



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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:14 am 
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Yah I nearly forgot about that one. Blackmore is especially killer in that song as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:26 am 
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Ariel wrote:
Okay I'm convinced, Lesh takes Casady in creativity. Wow. They're close. Both deserve to be considered bass gods, not demi gods, actual gods. Wow.


I really don't think Lesh takes Casady in creativity. Imo, its not even close.
Lesh has an awesome jazzy improv style that fits great with the Dead's music, but he doesn't really step out of his comfort zone too often.
That live Casady solo I posted is monstrous, far more daring and imaginative than anything I've heard from Phil.
Casady is clearly more skilled as well, and I really think he should be above Lesh, even though they should obviously be listed right next to each other.


Last edited by Negative Creep on Sat May 12, 2012 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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