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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Read thru Tony Newton's website. Super impressive guy (though his website is hilariously over the top in advertising him). He'll get a spot on here...after we work through the top 100. ('Possibles' etc come after that) Cheers!

EDIT: Oh btw Stu are you positive that's him playing on that Motown track you linked on here?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:39 pm 
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So, for shits and giggles, and to evaluate the general strength and accuracy of the 18-28 stretch here...

Steve Harris vs Stu Hamm (by criteria)
Influence: Harris by a good amount
Innovation: Harris' innovations are more important and notable, so Harris
Versatility: Hamm by FAR
Creativity: Hamm slightly
Tech Skill: Hamm by a lot

hmm...close overall imo.

Steve Harris vs John Deacon
Influence: Harris
Innovation: Harris
Creativity: Deaky
Versatility: Deaky
Tech skill: Harris

Another one that really could go either way.

Cliff Burton vs Stu Hamm
Influence: Burton
Innovation: BURTON
Versatility: Hamm but it isn't a total blowout
Tech skill: Hamm by a big distance
Creativity: Burton

I don't see Hamm realistically winning here.

Hmm...yea the 18-28 stretch definitely needs some work


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:37 pm 
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StuBass wrote:
I think I recall that Bassfreak was a Dixie Dregs fan...at least went to their performance. That could explain LaRue.


Haha oh Bassfreak and his biases...like the hilarious time he rose Flea to #2 and dropped Entwistle to #6, and tried to defend it by the criteria

I see LaRue top 40 at best and likely lower. He needs to drop like a rock

StuBass wrote:
Lets see...Phil Lesh???...Not being much of a "Deadhead", although one of my nephews once followed The Dead around the country for the better part of a year (he's since recovered). I know Lesh by his reputation and the musicians he hangs out with. The latter of the two somewhat enhanced my appreciation of him, since he's done a significant amount of work with the super talented songwriter/singer Joan Osborne...a 6 time Grammy winner. She's a talented individual, and wouldn't work with Lesh unless he was the real deal. As for his "Dead" stuff...a lot of it was really slow, so Lesh created a style where he jumped around structurally and harmonically a lot within those measures. In a way, that type of stuff allowed him a little bit of freedom to experiment. He's said that when playing...he looks at where he is and where he wants to end up...not worrying too much about where he's gonna go next. Interesting concept. As for a ranking...Just don't know, but he does garner some significant respect amongst fellow musicians.


I think the Dead suck personally, like suck terribly, but yea apparently Lesh is something else. "He's since recovered" haha.

Clearly I need to listen to the Dead...on Pandora or something. Everything I hear about Lesh, including what you're recounting here, blows me away. Wiki writes:

"Lesh, along with other musicians that include James Jamerson, Paul McCartney, John Entwistle, Roger Waters, Brian Wilson, Jack Bruce, and Jack Casady, was an innovator in the new role that the electric bass developed during the mid-1960s. These players adopted a more melodic, contrapuntal approach to the instrument; before this, bass players in rock had generally played a conventional timekeeping role within the beat of the song, and within (or underpinning) the song's harmonic or chord structure. While not abandoning these aspects, Lesh took his own improvised excursions during a song or instrumental. This was a characteristic aspect of the so-called San Francisco Sound in the new rock music. In many Dead jams, Lesh's bass is, in essence, as much a lead instrument as Garcia's guitar."

Word. If all of this is true, I foresee him being a possible contender for the hotly contested #18 spot here, or even higher than that.

StuBass wrote:
Babbitt...I'll accept your knowledgable judgement on his placement and keep my opinions to myself.


I appreciate that. Trust me, I won't shaft Bob, I realize how sick he is!


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:41 pm 
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StuBass wrote:
Just one more thing...on the dynamic of the Whitfield- Babbitt relationship. Before Babbitt arrived at Motown, Norman did a lot of work with Jamerson on many hits. When Norman took over The Temptations from Smokey, he soon sent them off in this new direction after listening to Sly & The Family Stone, etc...Norman decided to take them in a Psychadelic direction...hence "Cloud Nine" and then on and on. Norman and James both had VERY strong personalities. Jamerson could be stubborn and Norman was a my way or the highway, iron fisted producer. Bad mix when you're telling a guy to change his style from what he'd been used to. Babbitt was a much more easy going guy and willing to do what he was told and work within those guidelines...and he created some masterpieces with that work ethic and mentality. Just a bit of insight as to why Norman went with Babbitt and chose to avoid potential headbutting conflicts with Jamerson.


Very interesting. I DEFINITELY need to check the Tempt's out. Papa Was a Rolling Stone blows me away and this stuff about them doing a psychedelic period intrigues the hell out of me (Motown shoulda experimented like that more often).


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Ariel wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
Claypool greater than Geezer?
He might be "better", but no way he's greater, imo.

Remember this guys, it was not Iommi alone that defined the sound of Sabbath (as many claim), it's the combination of Iommi AND Butler together....well Bill's drums too of course....but primarily it was the earth-rumble sound of Tony and Geezer that defined Sabbath, and largely was THE foundation for the heavy metal sound in general. Just think, for instance, about that intro of Into The Void. It just wouldn't be the same without Geezer's plodding, monster bass to complement the guitar riff.

Geezer is just too important, imo.


I'm very glad you realize Geezer's importance to the Sabbath sound, corrections once said that Sabbath's sound is 60% Tony 25% Geezer and the rest is Bill and Ozzy, something like that. He was on the right track, in my personal opinion it'd be like 50% Tony 25% Geezer 15% Bill 10% Ozzy or something...(lol) Geezer was VERY important in the history of rock bass as you note and very original for his time. And often very underrated in creativity. A very important figure.

That said discussion on the top, er, 17 is currently basically locked. Sorry...it's just every time someone starts worrying about the top of the list, the rest of it gets ignored and never gets done! I personally think the top 17 is near-perfect right now, if not perfect, BUT after we're done with the rest of the list some minor touching up might be in order...and please come back and chip in on issues like this then! (That's an invitation)

You might be right about Geezer v Claypool by the criteria. But it's too minor an issue to un-lock discussion on the top of the list for. Sorry dude


No harm, no foul bro. :cheers:

Glad to see you getting more into Motown and 50's rock (as you mentioned above).

For me, the best decades for music since the 1950's would be ranked like this...
60's > 50's > 70's > 80's > 90's >> 00's.


Naw bro its 60s > 90s > 50s > 70s > 00s > 80s!!! Lol


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:43 pm 
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To Stu (and everyone): What do you think of Jack Casady??? Enlighten me


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:00 pm 
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The Temptations foray into their psychedelic era was the result of a few circumstances which happened to align. The group itself never really understood why producers tried to move them away from the "love song" formula which had brought them so much success. A couple of years earlier when Berry Gordy brought in producers for the "Mellow Mood" album...show songs and the like in an effort to move them away from the R&B stuff their audience was used to, the group members fought it to a certain extent...preferring to stay in their comfort zone. Berry was trying to expose them, and Motown in general to a wider audience, as he was already planning his move to LaLa land to do movies, etc. When Whitfield took over the groups production responsibilities, David Ruffin was on the way out and new lead singer Dennis Edwards was just happy to be with the group, and his gruff voice worked with the new style that Norman was looking to do. In other words, Berry was loosening his control over the material they were doing and delegating the day to day responsibilities to others. Berry had bigger plans. Berry was always hesitant to change the formula which had been so successful and in a way...generally liked to play it safe. That's why it took a lot of pressure to convince him to release Marvin Gayes What's Going On classic...fearing that the establishment might view the company as becoming more "militant".


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Ariel wrote:
Read thru Tony Newton's website. Super impressive guy (though his website is hilariously over the top in advertising him). He'll get a spot on here...after we work through the top 100. ('Possibles' etc come after that) Cheers!

EDIT: Oh btw Stu are you positive that's him playing on that Motown track you linked on here?


I'm not quite sure which track you mean, but Tony did play on a few records WITH Jamerson (although they may have mixed him down), plus he played a few other Motown tracks, but Mostly he was Motowns touring guy. True...Tony has been known to self promote a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:57 am 
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Ariel wrote:
So, for shits and giggles, and to evaluate the general strength and accuracy of the 18-28 stretch here...

Steve Harris vs Stu Hamm (by criteria)
Influence: Harris by a good amount
Innovation: Harris' innovations are more important and notable, so Harris
Versatility: Hamm by FAR
Creativity: Hamm slightly
Tech Skill: Hamm by a lot

hmm...close overall imo.

Steve Harris vs John Deacon
Influence: Harris
Innovation: Harris
Creativity: Deaky
Versatility: Deaky
Tech skill: Harris

Another one that really could go either way.

Cliff Burton vs Stu Hamm
Influence: Burton
Innovation: BURTON
Versatility: Hamm but it isn't a total blowout
Tech skill: Hamm by a big distance
Creativity: Burton

I don't see Hamm realistically winning here.

Hmm...yea the 18-28 stretch definitely needs some work


What has Steve Harris innovated? People often site his "galloping style" which really isn't that big a deal IMO.

Cliff Burton; What has he innovated and what makes him so creative? Burton is IMO one of the most overrated bassists on the list and owes his notoriety to being Being with Metallica and the fact that died in a bus crash.

Hamm; IMO by far the most versatile and technically skilled of any you mentioned due to his capability to play a wide variety of music and being one the best solo bass players around. He also is IMO much more creative than Harris or Burton. When compared to Deacon, Deacon may be more creative in a band setting but Hamm of course excels as a solo player.

That is why these break downs can get tricky as so much is subjective. Two IMO fairly knowledgeable people like you and I can look at the same player and have completely different opinions unless the difference is really obvious. Maybe when players are so close they could be bunched together and rated, for example, 25a, 25b, 25c.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:02 am 
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Ariel wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
.

For me, the best decades for music since the 1950's would be ranked like this...
60's > 50's > 70's > 80's > 90's >> 00's.


Naw bro its 60s > 90s > 50s > 70s > 00s > 80s!!! Lol


I'll play this game. 60s> 70s> 50s> 90s> 00s> 80s.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:12 am 
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Location: i'll send you to billy's
This game sounds like fun!
00s = 90s > 80s = 70s > 60s > 50s


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:44 am 
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Machine Head wrote:
This game sounds like fun!
00s = 90s > 80s = 70s > 60s > 50s


At least put some thought into it. All you did was go in chronological order!!! :naughty: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:32 am 
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Ariel wrote:
To Stu (and everyone): What do you think of Jack Casady??? Enlighten me


I fucking LOVE Casady. He is actually one of the most acclaimed rock bassists of that era.
I've always said that after Grace Slick and Marty Balin, Jack was the most talented member of the band by far (never thought much of Jorma or Spencer).

I'm probably wrong on this, but I believe Casady was somewhat of a pioneer in using heavily distorted bass, especially live.

Check out his playing on Let Me In...great shit.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:04 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Ariel wrote:
To Stu (and everyone): What do you think of Jack Casady??? Enlighten me


I fucking LOVE Casady. He is actually one of the most acclaimed rock bassists of that era.
I've always said that after Grace Slick and Marty Balin, Jack was the most talented member of the band by far (never thought much of Jorma or Spencer).

I'm probably wrong on this, but I believe Casady was somewhat of a pioneer in using heavily distorted bass, especially live.

Check out his playing on Let Me In...great shit.


Casady was and still is a great bass player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77-vQJtbFas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6cJR9co ... re=related


Last edited by Ssoyd on Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:39 am 
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Jack Casady...much acclaim...somewhat due to incorporating melodics into the San Francisco sound in the late 60's. White Rabbit is a good example of his JA period. I like some of his Hot Tuna stuff best since it allowed him more freedom to expand his style. The distortion he is known for is likely the result of the way his equiptment adapted to his playing in higher registers. I have a couple of articles I'll dig up on Jack.


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