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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:23 pm 
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Location: Matthew McConaughey has won the Oscar for Best Actor in-- "You think you know me..." Shit.
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but if FFVI isn't considered the same level of art as Braveheart, then there is no art.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Sounds like you're a craft man.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Location: Matthew McConaughey has won the Oscar for Best Actor in-- "You think you know me..." Shit.
I'm both. I don't know anybody who's played that game who hasn't felt some attachment to the characters, and I don't think any game captures that quite as well.

In my opinion, the two "types" of art are not mutually exclusive the way you make them sound. The best works are the ones that excel at creating a unique and appropriate form, and are able to touch a nerve somewhere (to reference another recent discussion, Neon Genesis does this excellently, though most would consider this more of a "craft").


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:59 am 
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boo boo wrote:
I could never get into Naruto, though I'm surprised by how well liked it is by people older than 12.


I hear the Japanese version is pretty good (I don't know which you watched). After seeing the American dub, however, I don't even want to go near the Japanese version.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Location: Matthew McConaughey has won the Oscar for Best Actor in-- "You think you know me..." Shit.
Read the manga.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Elfen Lied ftw.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Itlan wrote:
Elfen Lied ftw.


watched that when I was 13, the flashback dog/kids scene is pretty fucked


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:10 am 
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Elfen Lied is one of the most hated animes of all time by many people, but I personally loved it. I will probably never watch it again. The fucked-up-o-meter is high, even by anime standards. Apparently the manga is even better/worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:39 am 
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I thought it was kinda silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:58 am 
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There are my top reasons why older video games were better.

5. They were ridiculous.

Even the more "mature" games didn't take themselves too seriously, like Mortal Kombat. Games didn't have this "this is serious business for adult gamers" kind of pretense. As games have evolved, the events that unfold have become more and more traditional and based on old time tasted archtypes, not that there is anything wrong with that. But level designs aren't as outlandish and creative. Games that are really outlandish and creative are usually written off as gimmicky kids games. While generic shooters with super cliche "dramatic" storylines is the serious fucking shit.

Don't get me wrong, video games are STILL ridiciulous, but now it's that kind of Hollywood ridiculous, not that Japanese acid trip ridiculous that made older games so charming.

4. They were more challenging.

Some gamers may whine that it's because of things like respawning enemies, less intuitive controls and a scarce amount of save points and continues. But it doesn't matter, back then when you beat a game it felt like an accomplishment. Games were not just instant gratification but an experience. Games now give you a huge supply of cool weapons, save points and infinite continues. Even when games now do have challenges, because you're given so many abillities and weapons there's so many variables, like there is always some kind of way around them. Beating games now always seem inevitable.

3. Better music

Take your CD quality audio and orchestrations and stick it up your fucking ass. Music really seems like filler in games today, they're more like cliche movie scores, and not really something you would just listen to in a sound test. In older games music was a much more important part of the experience, hardware limitations meant composers had to be creative to create really captivating music.

Even today I think it's one of the bigger strength's Japanese developed games have over Western made games, western games all sound like Hanz fucking Zimmer worked on them or something.

2. Better graphics.

You know how CGI is so technically advanced but it still doesn't look as cool as just using fucking puppets? Well it's exactly like that.

I look at any kind of art or entertainment, and I look at that period of time when technology was not so advanced, and I see it as a good thing. It wasn't the dark ages, it meant people had to actually be creative instead of just banking on technology and "realism" to wow everybody. Games today try to wow you with how real they look. And now they look like..... generic Hollywood action films. The PS3 and 360 have all this potential that's never really used, they have an unlimited color pallette. But you wouldn't know that when looking at games like Modern Warfare.

When graphics couldn't do what they do now, developers had to elevate the visual presentation somehow. When games couldn't look realistic, the goal was simply to make them look visually inspired and imaginative. Now that we can simulate dust particles and all that shit, graphic designers have become more concerned with realism than actually coming up with ideas for fantastically unreal worlds.

Again I admit I'm biased towards the exagerated Japanese visual style and against the very plain Sy Fy original movie look of western games.

1. More replay value.

Gamers are stupid, they think that calling a game short is a legitimate criticism and justifies completely writing the game off despite all the effort that went into it.

Imagine someone calling the most genius piece of filmmaking a piece of shit because it's not 40 hours long.

While games are a hell of a lot longer now, they either get super repetitive or throw everything at you, when you have to devote so much time to beat a game it really oversatiates the player, who will rarely want to play through the whole thing again. It's not like movies or music, gamers today are like "hey I beat the game it's worthless to me now" and they'll just sell it.

The beauty of shorter games is that because they are short and sweet, they leave you wanting more, that is what gives them such tremendous replay value. Simple games can be the most addictive.

I see people hyping the holy bejesus out of games like God of War III, only for them to sell it when they get bored with it. Retro gamers on the other hand will find that a lot of the older games are worth revisiting time and time again.


Last edited by boo boo on Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:09 am 
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You should give Portal a try.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:17 am 
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I really do want to play that game. I know Curiosity probably hates it so I bet it fucking rules. I can forgive that it wasn't made by the Japanese.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:38 pm 
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Mitch NZ wrote:
Elfen Lied is one of the most hated animes of all time by many people, but I personally loved it. I will probably never watch it again. The fucked-up-o-meter is high, even by anime standards. Apparently the manga is even better/worse.


Same, it tends to get a lot of flack for using shock tactics--nudity, gore etc to lure people in. Personally I see it as an almost Shakespearean tragedy... The manga is terribly drawn but has more of an edge, in a way, as opposed to melodrama.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:47 am 
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Sherick wrote:
I'm both. I don't know anybody who's played that game who hasn't felt some attachment to the characters, and I don't think any game captures that quite as well.



Now you do.


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 Post subject: Re: Why video games can never succeed as art
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:16 pm 
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beyonddeities wrote:
Mitch NZ wrote:
Elfen Lied is one of the most hated animes of all time by many people, but I personally loved it. I will probably never watch it again. The fucked-up-o-meter is high, even by anime standards. Apparently the manga is even better/worse.


Same, it tends to get a lot of flack for using shock tactics--nudity, gore etc to lure people in. Personally I see it as an almost Shakespearean tragedy... The manga is terribly drawn but has more of an edge, in a way, as opposed to melodrama.


I just don't buy Elfen Lied's logic. Usually when you find a naked retarded girl on the beach, your first instinct is to call the police, not take her home (well, I'm sure some people would take her home, but the series leads us to believe the main characters are fine upstanding citizens). And then things just get too coincidental when it turns out the main guy and Lucy had crossed paths before, I'm sure mind-boggling coincidences like that have happened, but it's still hard to wrap your head around. A simple solution would be to imply that Nyu subconsciously went to the main character because of Lucy. But even if it had been about 10 years, don't you think the main character would have found her suspicious, you don't run into to many naturally pink-haired girls.

I don't know, maybe things are just different in Japan.

I still think it's an intriguing story that had much potential, but was overall poorly executed. I recognize suspension of disbelief, but when every other scene stretches it, it gets hard for me to be pulled into the story.


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