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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:21 am 
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Yes, I am the Lara fanboy - I've not read the blog just had a quick gander at the user comment Minty flagged up. I will say, and I've said it before, I don't see a great advantage in being a batsman surrounded by dross in the rest of your top order. Batting at test level is such an extraordinary mental challenge which can only be intensified by knowing that you cannot rely on your teammates a la Lara's situation for much of his career. I think we can surely all agree on this basic principle before we look at anything.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:39 am 
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Will probably do a short revision of this list tonight. Watch this space...


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:44 am 
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Cool, Avery. Can you do something like colouring the ones that have risen/fallen or putting in brackets how many each has gone up or down so we can see the movers and shakers?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:45 am 
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I think I'm just going to post a new top 30 like I have in the football players' list, so we can discuss it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:48 am 
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Cool.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:28 pm 
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has anyone EVER argued about the number 1 ??


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:06 pm 
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Nick-ola wrote:
Yes, I am the Lara fanboy - I've not read the blog just had a quick gander at the user comment Minty flagged up. I will say, and I've said it before, I don't see a great advantage in being a batsman surrounded by dross in the rest of your top order. Batting at test level is such an extraordinary mental challenge which can only be intensified by knowing that you cannot rely on your teammates a la Lara's situation for much of his career. I think we can surely all agree on this basic principle before we look at anything.


It's not an advantage, you're right, but it does skew the stats. That's not the only thing though Nick. There are many things not considered, like the day an innings was played, the state of the pitch, etc.

The main point I would make is you could come up with 100 different ways to statistically define 'effective runs' ... and then you could still never really be right because there are so many things statistics can never explain.

As one of your prime ministers once said - there are three kinds of lies; lies, damned lies and statistics!

rv, I think Imran is without doubt in the top 5 cricketers to ever play the game...but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a lock for the all time world XI. He could just miss out for balance of the team considerations. Sobers is the better option at 6 if you're picking 5 batsmen...and with the batting line up as it is, he's really competing for 8 as a bowler, and he's in the mixing pot sure, but would you really rate him ahead of Lillee, Marshall, Ambrose, Hadlee, McGrath etc as a bowler? I'd rate him alongside most of those guys, but definitely not ahead of them. Akram obviously made it because he's a left armer and brings that other option...though I suppose you could argue that Sobers already provides that option. Still, I think I'd pick Ambrose before Imran purely as a fast bowler and being a different type of bowler to the others.

You're right though in that it seems they've only allowed one all-rounder and have had the team constructed in the classical way, with 5 batsmen, an all-rounder then keeper, then 4 bowlers. Bradman's all time XI only had 4 batsmen, then Sobers at 5, the keeper at 6 and 5 bowlers. Much more attacking that way. I think if I was picking my own XI I'd play the two all rounders at 5 and 6. Sobers 5 and 6 being probably Imran, with Hadlee and Miller the other two in the mix.

I agree with you re the keeper. And so does Ian Chappell (they have a whole series of videos on cricinfo with him talking about the team). He also picked Sehwag to open in his own team, which I reckon is great!

My all time XI

1. Katich (haha, just kidding, but I love the guy...would probably go with a more classical opener to balance Sehwag, like a Gavaskar or Hutton)
2. Sehwag
3. Bradman
4. Tendulkar
5. Sobers
6. Imran
7. Knott
8. Warne
9. Marshall
10. Lillee
11. Ambrose


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:10 pm 
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OK, here's a revised top 30. Thoughts?

1. Don Bradman (Australia, Batsman)
2. Gary Sobers (West Indies, All-Rounder)
3. Jack Hobbs (England, Opening Batsman)
4. Imran Khan (Pakistan, All-Rounder)
5. Shane Warne (Australia, Leg-Spin Bowler)
6. W.G. Grace (England, All-Rounder)
7. Viv Richards (West Indies, Opening Batsman)
8. Dennis Lillee (Australia, Fast Bowler)
9. Sachin Tendulkar (India, Batsman)
10. Greg Chappell (Australia, Batsman)

11. Walter Hammond (England, Batsman)
12. Richard Hadlee (New Zealand, All-Rounder)
13. Malcolm Marshall (West Indies, Fast Bowler)
14. Brian Lara (West Indies, Batsman)
15. George Headley (West Indies, Batsman)
16. Ian Botham (England, All-Rounder)
17. Muttiah Muralitharan (Sri Lanka, Off-Spin Bowler)
18. Glenn McGrath (Australia, Fast-Medium Pace Bowler)
19. Sunil Gavaskar (India, Opening Batsman)
20. Ricky Ponting (Australia, Batsman)

21. Keith Miller (Australia, All-Rounder)
22. Wasim Akram (Pakistan, Fast Bowler)
23. Graeme Pollock (South Africa, Batsman)
24. Sydney Barnes (England, Fast-Medium Pace Bowler)
25. Allan Border (Australia, Batsman)
26. Frank Worrell (West Indies, Batsman)
27. Kapil Dev (India, All-Rounder)
28. Adam Gilchrist (Australia, Wicket-Keeper)
29. Len Hutton (England, Opening Batsman)
30. Herbert Sutcliffe (England, Opening Batsman)


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:16 pm 
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Nice update Avery!

All the changes I've noticed are good ones. I still think Greg Chappell is maybe a touch too high. Not quite sure who I'd put 10, but any of the 5 below him would be good candidates. Nice to see McGrath get a boost.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:06 pm 
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MintCondition wrote:
My all time XI

1. Katich (haha, just kidding, but I love the guy...would probably go with a more classical opener to balance Sehwag, like a Gavaskar or Hutton)
2. Sehwag
3. Bradman
4. Tendulkar
5. Sobers
6. Imran
7. Knott
8. Warne
9. Marshall
10. Lillee
11. Ambrose
thats a fine XI. Sehwag and Hutton would be a great combo, or even Hobbs.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:15 pm 
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MintCondition wrote:
Nice update Avery!

All the changes I've noticed are good ones. I still think Greg Chappell is maybe a touch too high. Not quite sure who I'd put 10, but any of the 5 below him would be good candidates. Nice to see McGrath get a boost.
in tests he outperforms viv easily though. even moreso when you consider (which you should) his imperious record in WSC and 5 day games against world XI's which were packed with all time great bowlers, bringing his career ave to 56 with 31 tons.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:25 pm 
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MintCondition wrote:
rv, I think Imran is without doubt in the top 5 cricketers to ever play the game...but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a lock for the all time world XI. He could just miss out for balance of the team considerations. Sobers is the better option at 6 if you're picking 5 batsmen...and with the batting line up as it is, he's really competing for 8 as a bowler, and he's in the mixing pot sure, but would you really rate him ahead of Lillee, Marshall, Ambrose, Hadlee, McGrath etc as a bowler? I'd rate him alongside most of those guys, but definitely not ahead of them. Akram obviously made it because he's a left armer and brings that other option...though I suppose you could argue that Sobers already provides that option. Still, I think I'd pick Ambrose before Imran purely as a fast bowler and being a different type of bowler to the others.

honeslty id rate him right alongside lillee as a bowler, both incredible tearaway bowlers when young, who then later had to resort to a more cunning hadlee-like approach to bowling as injuries took away their pace, and did it with aplomb. imran also had to do it on traditionally ordinary pitches for fastmen, whereas 90%+ of lillee's career was played here or england, yet imran still has better stats. it makes sense to not have them both in the team and take a guy like ambrose though. though you could pick a young fast lille and an older swing master imran (or vice versa) and leave out marshall though :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Now you're talking rv! An all time XI that specifies the exact version/age of the players you're picking.

I'll pick VVS Laxman from 2001...and if we can be even more specific, VVS Laxman from the day he scored that big double century against us to beat us after following on. That still sticks out in my mind as the best innings I've ever seen. I said this after the first test in this series, but if he played as well against everyone else as he does against us, he'd be making these all time XI's.

We should make a most elegant/stylish all time XI ... batting order has to include laxman, gower, mark waugh and greg chappell.

I was going to say we could make a 'coolest' XI initially ... but I'm not sure if anyone from outside of the west indies would make it! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:46 am 
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Katich another Hampshire player - I admire his pluck, but a lesser JL Langer, no?
I'll get to an all time XI.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cricketers of All-Time
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:59 am 
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Yeah I loved Langer as well...what a legend. If I ever needed to pick a team to play for my life I'd be hard pressed to find a better opening pair than Langer and Katich.


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