Chemical Ali wrote:
I overplay the supporting cast? You absolutely underplay his supporting cast. Wow, yup, in 2003 it was all duncan. Give me a break, you didnt give any of those players right there any praise at all. His playoff pers are higher because he was always a higher seed, and played lower seeds, and then would play more games. most of garnetts playoffs were one and dones. Best players (ill take a page from you) an old sam cassell, and sprewell in his last season? Besides with the celtics, he made it out of the first round with the wolves once, and he put up 24/14.6/5.3 great numbers and taking them to the conference finals.
the bold is simply not true. yes, that would make sense if all they played was the first round. most of the time, the T-Wolves would have a seed 4-6. SA would have to play a 7 or 8 seed sure, but in the second round they'd have to play a 3 or 4, then they'd have to play the conference finals and sometimes the finals. 3 rounds of games with opponents equal to or better than Garnett's opponent. which doesnt matter, since we have 3 examples of Garnett going deep in the playoffs (granted the last one was post-surgery) and none of those seasons did he have a higher PER than Duncan's 7th best season.
and as far as their supporting casts go. "old cassell and sprewell" trump.
2003 Spurs (minutes per, points, rebounds, assists, FG%, PER
1 Tim Duncan 42.5 24.7 15.4 5.3 .529 28.4
2 Tony Parker 33.9 14.7 2.8 3.5 .403 11.9
3 Stephen Jackson 33.8 12.8 4.1 2.7 .414 12.0
4 Manu Ginobili 27.5 9.4 3.8 2.9 .386 15.0
5 Malik Rose 23.3 9.3 5.8 1.0 .419 13.3
6 David Robinson 23.4 7.8 6.6 0.9 .542 17.7
7 Bruce Bowen 31.3 6.9 2.9 1.6 .372 8.9
1 Kevin Garnett 43.4 24.3 14.6 5.1 .452 25.0
2 Latrell Sprewell 42.9 19.8 4.4 4.0 .421 17.7
3 Sam Cassell 31.1 16.6 2.5 4.4 .465 19.6
4 Wally Szczerbiak 24.8 11.8 3.3 1.7 .420 15.5
5 Trenton Hassell 26.2 7.7 2.4 1.5 .521 12.5
6 Fred Hoiberg 24.3 6.4 3.7 1.3 .453 13.9
7 Ervin Johnson 19.8 2.7 4.7 0.7 .500 10.3
there is no way that Duncan had a better supporting cast than Garnett here. both Sprewell and Cassell are better than anyone Duncan had. Duncan's next best player was kept to 23 minutes a game because of age and his next two top scorers shot 40% and 41% from the field. Garnett had the 5th highest FG% on his team during the playoffs (lower than his PG).
the gap obviously isnt huge here. and i'm not trying to say Garnett is some hack. because i believe he is worthy of top 25 all-time and is the 4th best player of his generation behind Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe. but Duncan has 4 rings on two completely different rosters (he is the only hold-over from the 99 team who was on the 07 team) and at least one of them came to him while he was the only all-star on his team (99 he had a younger Admiral and by 05 and 07 Manu and Parker were legit). Garnett never made it out of the first round without two all-stars in his supporting cast and failed to even make the playoffs three straight years in his prime. i mean, honestly, how many all-time greats can say they failed to make the playoffs three straight times in their prime, regardless of the talent surrounding them. hell, Kobe gets knocked for just missing the playoffs once and even he came back to make them the next two years with a supporting cast of Odom, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. seriously, his 3rd and 4th best players were Smush Parker and Kwame Brown and he made the playoffs. Garnett in 05 still had Sprewell and Cassell and Wally and missed out on the playoffs while Pau Gasol took the Grizzlies to the playoffs over him.
i will give Garnett a ton of credit. he battled through with a lot of bad teams. he played great defense. he was a hell of a competitor. but at the end of the day, Duncan took 4 teams to championships and never had a bad season in terms of individual success or team success. hell, he never even got bounced in the first round until two years ago. he has 2 MVPs, the 5th highest playoff PER in NBA history
(MJ, Mikan, LeBron, Shaq then Duncan), 9th highest in MVP shares, and 13 straight All-NBA selections, including 8 first-team selections to start his career.
their resumes are just not equal.