It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:29 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 262 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 18  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:03 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:46 pm
Posts: 458
Location: North Florida
100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers

Criteria: Honours, Influence on tactics and other parts of management, Relative success at a club/nation (i.e. taking a small team and turning them into a big team), Style of Play, Unique Footballing Achievements

(Note: Some managers managed at loads of different clubs, so i limited the sides in the brackets to a maximum of their 3 most successful managerial stints)

List Editor: Avery_Island

1. Rinus Michels (Ajax, The Netherlands, Barcelona)
2. Sir Alex Ferguson (St. Mirren, Aberdeen, Manchester United)
3. Ernst Happel (Feyenoord, The Netherlands, Hamburger SV)
4. Carlos Bianchi (Vélez Sársfield, Boca Juniors)
5. Bob Paisley (Liverpool)
6. Valeriy Lobanovskyi (Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk, Dinamo Kyiv, USSR)
7. Ottmar Hitzfeld (Grasshopper Club Zürich, Borussia Dortmund, Bayern Munich)
8. Béla Guttmann (Újpest FC, FC Porto, Benfica)
9. Helmut Schön (West Germany)
10. Jock Stein (Dunfermline Athletic, Celtic, Scotland)

11. Miguel Muñoz (Real Madrid, Spain)
12. Otto Rehhagel (Werder Bremen, 1. FC Kaiserslautern, Greece)
13. Helenio Herrera (Atlético Madrid, Barcelona, Internazionale)
14. Giovanni Trapattoni (Juventus, Internazionale, Bayern Munich)
15. Herbert Chapman (Northampton Town, Huddersfield Town, Arsenal)
16. Sir Alf Ramsey (Ipswich Town, England)
17. Brian Clough (Derby County, Nottingham Forest)
18. José Mourinho (FC Porto, Chelsea, Internazionale)
19. Udo Lattek (Bayern Munich, Borussia Mönchengladbach, Barcelona)
20. Mario Zagallo (Botafogo, Brazil)

21. Arrigo Sacchi (AC Milan, Italy)
22. Osvaldo Zubeldía (Estudiantes, San Lorenzo de Almagro, Atlético Nacional)
23. Luis Cubilla (Olimpia, Peñarol, Atlético Nacional)
24. Victor Maslov (Torpedo Moscow, Dinamo Kyiv, FC Ararat Yerevan)
25. Carlos Bilardo (Estudiantes, Argentina)
26. Vittorio Pozzo (Italy)
27. Nereo Rocco (Triestina, Padova, AC Milan)
28. Marcelo Lippi (Napoli, Juventus, Italy)
29. Guus Hiddink (PSV Eindhoven, The Netherlands, South Korea)
30. Nils Arne Eggen (Rosenborg BK)

31. Hennes Weisweiler (Borussia Monchengladbach, 1. FC Koln)
32. Tomislav Ivic (Hajduk Split, Ajax, FC Porto)
33. Sir Matt Busby (Manchester United)
34. Guy Roux (AJ Auxerre)
35. Hugo Meisl (Austria)
36. Johan Cruyff (Ajax, Barcelona)
37. Bill Struth (Rangers)
38. Istvan Kovacs (Steua Bucharest, Ajax, Panathinikos)
39. Raymond Goethals (Belgium, Standard Liege, Olympique Marseille)
40. Carlos Alberto Parreira (Fluminense, Brazil, Corinthians)

41. Jürgen Bogs (Berliner FC Dynamo)
42. Gusztáv Sebes (Hungary)
43. Boris Arkadiev (Metallurg Moscow, Dinamo Moscow, CDKA)
44. José Villalonga (Real Madrid, Atlético Madrid, Spain)
45. Albert Batteux (Stade de Reims, France, AS Saunt-Etienne)
46. Manuel José de Jesus (Boavista, Al-Ahly)
47. Bill Shankly (Liverpool)
48. Fabio Capello (AC Milan, Roma, Juventus)
49. Willie Maley (Celtic)
50. Karl Rappan (Grasshopper Club Zürich, Switzerland, Servette)

51. Guillermo Stábile (Racing Club, Argentina)
52. Juan Carlos Lorenzo (Mallorca, San Lorenzo, Boca Juniors)
53. Luiz Felipe Scolari (Grêmio, Palmeiras, Brazil)
54. Franz Beckenbauer (West Germany, Bayern Munich)
55. Telê Santana (Grêmio, Brazil, São Paulo)
56. Aimé Jacquet (Girondins de Bordeaux, France)
57. Don Revie (Leeds United)
58. Carlo Ancelotti (Reggiana, AC Milan, Chelsea)
59. Sir Bobby Robson (Ipswich Town, England, Barcelona)
60. Vanderlei Luxemburgo (Palmeiras, Brazil, Cruzeiro)

61. Louis Van Gaal (Ajax, Barcelona, Bayern Munich)
62. Arsène Wenger (AS Monaco, Nagoya Grampus Eight, Arsenal)
63. César Luis Menotti (Huracán, Argentina, Independiente)
64. Alfio Basile (Racing Club, Argentina, Boca Juniors)
65. Vicente del Bosque (Real Madrid, Spain)
66. Sepp Herberger (Germany/West Germany)
67. Stan Cullis (Wolverhampton Wanderers)
68. Otto Glória (Botafogo FR, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon)
69. Josep Guardiola (Barcelona)
70. Rafael Benítez (Valencia, Liverpool)

71. Luis Carniglia (Real Madrid, Roma)
72. Jesse Carver (Juventus)
73. Paulo Autuori (Cruzerio, São Paulo)
74. Jimmy Hogan (Austria Vienna, MTK Budapest FC, Aston Villa)
75. Enzo Bearzot (Italy)
76. Ljupko Petrovic (Red Star Belgrade)
77. Nevio Scala (Reggina, Parma)
78. Vicente Feola (Sao Paulo, Brazil)
79. Sepp Piotek (Denmark, Aalborg BK)
80. Sven-Goran Eriksson (IFK Goteborg, Benfica, Lazio)

81. Frank Rijkaard (Barcelona)
82. Dettmar Cramer (Bayern Munich)
83. Luís Alonso Pérez (Santos)
84. José Maria Pedroto (FC Porto, Vitória, Boavista)
85. Fatih Terim (Galatasaray, Turkey)
86. Wiel Coerver (NEC, Feyenoord)
87. Robert Herbin (AS Saint-Étienne)
88. Artur Jorge (FC Porto, Paris Saint Germain)
89. Ramón Díaz (River Plate, San Lorenzo)
90. Juan Carlos Oblitas (Universitario de Deportes, Sporting Cristal, Peru)

91. Lucien Leduc (AS Monaco, Servette FC, Olympique Marseille)
92. Mircea Lucescu (Dinamo Bucurest, Galatasaray, Shakhtar Donetsk)
93. Roger Lemerre (France)
94. Ángel Labruna (River Plate)
95. Antônio Lopes (Internacional, Vasco, Corinthians)
96. Bill Nicholson (Tottenham Hotspur)
97. Emerich Ienei (Steua Bucharest)
98. Enrique Fernández (Nacional, Barcelona, Real Madrid)
99. Manuel Lapuente (Necaxa, Mexico, Club América)
100. Jaques Santini (Lyon)


Top 10 Greatest International Teams:
1. Brazil 1970 (Zagalo)
2. Hungary 1953 (Sebes)
3. The Netherlands 1974 (Michels)
4. Brazil 1958 (Feola)
5. Austria 1932 (Meisl)
6. Brazil 1982 (Santana)
7. France 2000 (Lemerre)
8. Spain 2008 (Aragones)
9. West Germany 1974 (Schon)
10. England 1966 (Ramsey)

Top 10 Greatest European Club Teams:
1. Real Madrid 1959-1960 (Munoz)
2. Ajax 1970-1971 (Michels)
3. AC Milan 1988-1989 (Sacchi)
4. Bayern Munich 1973-1974 (Lattek)
5. Liverpool 1976-1977 (Paisley)
6. Internazionale 1964-65 (Herrera)
7. Barcelona 2008-2009 (Guardiola)
8. Manchester United 1998-1999 (Ferguson)
9. Benfica 1961-62 (Guttman)
10. Celtic 1966-1967 (Stein)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:25 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 5067
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
RIP Malcolm Allison.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:57 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 5067
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
I'm going to take my anti Fergie stuff in here and stop poisoning the main thread :lol:

Actually this isn't anti Fergie at all, it's a question in general but one that fits Fergie especially I think. Is there scope for current managers being moved down the list in time as opposed to being usurped by a later manager? Here's the Fergie scenario that I've thought of. Arguments sake, Fergie manages another 5 years at United and fails to add another European crown. At what point does a record of only 2 European Cups actually become a minus point on his record? After 25 years competition? After nearly 20 (currently)? Never?
How much greater value do you place on domestic leagues (English/Spanish - top tier for the times) than the European Cup (taking into account the luck element of its Cup format)?
This occurred to me when considering discussion of Fergie and Paisley (Paisley with his 3 titles in a much shorter period in the European Cup against fewer league titles and a much shorter period of continued success). Also are you placing greater significance/importance on winning the European Cup as the expanded competition it is today and has been for the last 12-15 years?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:05 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:37 pm
Posts: 9258
Well I think it's fairly clear the European cup now is more difficult - more games, more teams from the stronger leagues - just generally a tougher task (although one European cup is one European cup win, whenever it's achieved). I think there's a tendency to slightly downgrade Ferguson's European record. Don't forget about the European ban the first few years, and then remember it took the English years several years to get back to the level of the rest of Europe (case in point Barca's 4-0 demolition of United in 1994). You have to also take into account the fact that in this purple patch of European form for United (07-09), United set records for home games unbeaten, away games unbeaten, and overall games unbeaten in European competition, and United as a whole, have just about been the most consistent club in the CL in terms of games win etc.. (although obviously Milan and Real take the cake here for their 3 wins). Paisley's nine year run was incredible, and he's rightly rewarded with a top 5/10 place but you have to consider Ferguson has had probably two nine year runs on a similar level with United. Factor in his Scottish achievements, and his longevity and place at the cutting edge of the game, and there's no doubt he deserves his place on the list.

I think the league titles are pretty much on the same level as a European Cup, but I don't know how Avery's considered them.


Last edited by Georgi on Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:11 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:23 am
Posts: 2718
Location: Portsmouth, Portsea Island, UK
Nick, how is only winning 2 European Cups ever going to become a minus on his record? Only one man in history has ever won more than 2 European Cups, and he has won 4 cups of any European competition, which no other manager in history can beat.

The idea that Fergie has a poor European record is a myth, he's won as much as anyone else ever has in Europe. Managers just don't win 4 or 5 European Cups like they do league titles, the competition is too strong for that to happen. That's what makes Paisley's stint so remarkable.

I consider the European Cup to be a more important achievement than a league title, for the reason above.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:14 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 5067
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Georgi wrote:
Well I think it's fairly clear the European cup now is more difficult - more games, more teams from the stronger leagues - just generally a tougher task (although one European cup is one European cup win, whenever it's achieved).


What about modern seedings though?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:19 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 5067
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Avery_Island wrote:
Nick, how is only winning 2 European Cups ever going to become a minus on his record? Only one man in history has ever won more than 2 European Cups, and he has won 4 cups of any European competition, which no other manager in history can beat.


Yes, UEFA Cup & Cup Winners Cup are obviously achievements (especially the latter with Aberdeen), but obviously they are lesser competitions than the European Cup.

I'm not sure why you don't see that winning 2 European Cups at the same team in 15 odd attempts might not equate to someone with 2 European Cups at 2 separate teams (I think you're being slightly disingenuous with you "only one man in history has ever won more than 2 European Cups" remark)?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:21 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 5067
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Avery_Island wrote:
Managers just don't win 4 or 5 European Cups like they do league titles, the competition is too strong for that to happen. That's what makes Paisley's stint so remarkable.


Clough being the exception?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:30 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:23 am
Posts: 2718
Location: Portsmouth, Portsea Island, UK
Nick-ola wrote:
Avery_Island wrote:
Nick, how is only winning 2 European Cups ever going to become a minus on his record? Only one man in history has ever won more than 2 European Cups, and he has won 4 cups of any European competition, which no other manager in history can beat.


Yes, UEFA Cup & Cup Winners Cup are obviously achievements (especially the latter with Aberdeen), but obviously they are lesser competitions than the European Cup.

I'm not sure why you don't see that winning 2 European Cups at the same team in 15 odd attempts might not equate to someone with 2 European Cups at 2 separate teams (I think you're being slightly disingenuous with you "only one man in history has ever won more than 2 European Cups" remark)?


But only one man in history has won more than 2 European Cups.

I would regard Happel's and Hitzfeld's achievements in Europe to be better than Fergie's, but you are also being disingenuous regarding ManUtd as the same team. A team isn't the same team when you've been there as long as Fergie has, he's had at least 4 or 5 completely separate sets of players and has won the European Cup with 2 completely different sets of players.

Only Lobonovskyi can match Ferguson for keeping one team at the top domestically for so long and the league title allows for mistakes in a way the European Cup doesn't. Of course he's not going to win the European Cup every year, a great manager will be nowhere near perfect, in reality a great manager will get it wrong 30-40% of the time, if not more, which means when playing in a knock-out tournament where one mistake can cost you, no manager will win it on a very consistent basis.

Winning 2 out of 15 attempts may not sound that great on paper, but in reality it is a pretty great record that I imagine few managers could match.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:33 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:23 am
Posts: 2718
Location: Portsmouth, Portsea Island, UK
Nick-ola wrote:
Avery_Island wrote:
Managers just don't win 4 or 5 European Cups like they do league titles, the competition is too strong for that to happen. That's what makes Paisley's stint so remarkable.


Clough being the exception?


In what sense, Nick? Clough won the European cup twice in four attempts, yes, but he only had 4 attempts because on a domestic level his side were never good enough to qualify. Even by today's standards where the top 4 qualify he would have only qualified one one or two more seasons than he actually did, his Forest side finished 7th in the league when they won the European Cup in 1980 for example. Clough was fantastic with the underdog, but lacked consistency or being able to maintain any sort of grasp at the top once he reached there. Ferguson has had all those attempts because he's consistently qualified for it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:36 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 5067
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Avery_Island wrote:
Nick-ola wrote:
Avery_Island wrote:
Managers just don't win 4 or 5 European Cups like they do league titles, the competition is too strong for that to happen. That's what makes Paisley's stint so remarkable.


Clough being the exception?


In what sense, Nick? Clough won the European cup twice in four attempts, yes, but he only had 4 attempts because on a domestic level his side were never good enough to qualify. Even by today's standards where the top 4 qualify he would have only qualified one one or two more seasons than he actually did, his Forest side finished 7th in the league when they won the European Cup in 1980 for example. Clough was fantastic with the underdog, but lacked consistency or being able to maintain any sort of grasp at the top once he reached there. Ferguson has had all those attempts because he's consistently qualified for it.


Nothing to do with Ferguson, avery. Just suggesting he's the exception (his European Cup record was better than his domestic record). Was wondering if you were going to highlight any others with that slant on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:40 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 5067
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Avery_Island wrote:
I would regard Happel's and Hitzfeld's achievements in Europe to be better than Fergie's, but you are also being disingenuous regarding ManUtd as the same team.


I don't think I am. I mean that being in charge of one club for a lengthy period would naturally put you in a better position to build a side towards winning a certain competition more often (in this case the European Cup) than hopping from club to club (ie taking a squad of more inherited players than players you've bought and earmarked to help you win a certain trophy).

Fergie's regenerating of his side in terms of the league is incredible of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:45 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:23 am
Posts: 2718
Location: Portsmouth, Portsea Island, UK
Nick-ola wrote:
Avery_Island wrote:
I would regard Happel's and Hitzfeld's achievements in Europe to be better than Fergie's, but you are also being disingenuous regarding ManUtd as the same team.


I don't think I am. I mean that being in charge of one club for a lengthy period would naturally put you in a better position to build a side towards winning a certain competition (in this case the European Cup) than winning it at a club quickly and then winning it at another club quickly as well (ie inherited players more than a squad you've pieced together with a specific aim in mind).

Fergie's regenerating of his side in terms of the league is incredible of course.


It depends what kind of side you inherit though. To be able to win a trophy with the same club 10 years after you won it for the first time, you have to build an entirely new side, you have to have signed great players on a consistent basis and/or brought through great youth players on a consistent basis.

Either way, would you not also say that winning the European Cup with the same club 10 years apart, is much harder than winning it, say, 2 years back to back with exactly the same team?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:48 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:23 am
Posts: 2718
Location: Portsmouth, Portsea Island, UK
Incidentally, I don't know if anyone watched that "Can England England win the next World Cup?" on BBC the other week, but it made me feel I've really underrated Cruyff on this list.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Football (Soccer) Managers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:58 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 5067
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Avery_Island wrote:
Either way, would you not also say that winning the European Cup with the same club 10 years apart, is much harder than winning it, say, 2 years back to back with exactly the same team?


No i wouldn't. Definitely not just as a bald assertion like that, no. I don't think that it particulaly improves Man Utd's European Cup record to have won the last 2 European Cups 10 years apart and not back to back. As a bigger picture statement though I would agree because it hints at continued domestic dominance (ie being in a position to win the European Cup ten years apart) and obviously winning the league 3 years in a row and then not winning as consistently (1 in 3 or 4 i think) and then 3 years in a row is a brilliant achievement unmatched perhaps in English football.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 262 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 18  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

DigitalDreamDoor Forum is one part of a music and movie list website whose owner has given its visitors
the privilege to discuss music and movies, and has no control and cannot in any way be held liable over
how, or by whom this board is used. If you read or see anything inappropriate that has been posted,
contact webmaster@digitaldreamdoor.com. Comments in the forum are reviewed before list updates.
Topics include rock music, metal, rap, hip-hop, blues, jazz, songs, albums, guitar, drums, musicians...


DDD Home Page | DDD Music Lists Page | DDD Movie Lists Page