Yeah no. If you want to look at INTs, INTs say Orton was better. Their record was the same Orton's first season. You wanna look at TDs, Cutler was better by 4, whoop-de-do he threw 6 more INTs to get there. He threw about 700 more yards on 60 more pass attempts. Certainly doesn't justify the trade value whatsoever and if you just compare their stats in the same year, with Orton in Denver and Cutler in Chicago, Orton still looks like the better QB.

Oh yeah the Bucs were terrible right after they let Brooks go. But it had to be done. Same thing with the Titans when they dumped Samari Rolle, Steve McNair, Derrick Mason, Eddie George, etc. all over the course of a season or two. Those guys could actually still play, and a few of them took the Ravens to the AFC Championship game, but the Titans had already held on to those guys for too long and had consecutive losing seasons as a result. Another example is the Chiefs, when they had the departure of Jared Allen, Trent Green, Damon Huard, Will Shields, Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, and Ty Law over a short period of time. They're in contention now. The Jaguars lost Jimmy Smith, Fred Taylor, Marcus Stroud, John Henderson, Paul Spicer, and Mike Peterson in a short period of time. They look like they're recovering now. Every team has to dump stars at some point.

Yeah no. If you want to look at INTs, INTs say Orton was better. Their record was the same Orton's first season. You wanna look at TDs, Cutler was better by 4, whoop-de-do he threw 6 more INTs to get there. He threw about 700 more yards on 60 more pass attempts. Certainly doesn't justify the trade value whatsoever and if you just compare their stats in the same year, with Orton in Denver and Cutler in Chicago, Orton still looks like the better QB.


Jake. Fucking. Plummer.

Your line point would hold if Tyler Polumbus and Zane Beadles were the same person as Ryan Harris, or J.D. Walton were the same person as Casey Wiegman, or Russ Hochstein were the same person as Ben Hamilton, but they aren't. You can hinge everything on Ryan Clady, but he was pretty much a BAMF from the moment he came into the league.



Oh yeah the Bucs were terrible right after they let Brooks go. But it had to be done. Same thing with the Titans when they dumped Samari Rolle, Steve McNair, Derrick Mason, Eddie George, etc. all over the course of a season or two. Those guys could actually still play, and a few of them took the Ravens to the AFC Championship game, but the Titans had already held on to those guys for too long and had consecutive losing seasons as a result. Another example is the Chiefs, when they had the departure of Jared Allen, Trent Green, Damon Huard, Will Shields, Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, and Ty Law over a short period of time. They're in contention now. The Jaguars lost Jimmy Smith, Fred Taylor, Marcus Stroud, John Henderson, Paul Spicer, and Mike Peterson in a short period of time. They look like they're recovering now. Every team has to dump stars at some point.

Jay Cutler is a bust, all of you need to face it lol. Well his line is bloody awful and his receivers suck... but he still isn't that good. He has the skill set to be a great QB, but he sucks.

Did the Ravens dump Ray Lewis and Ed Reed? How about the Giants and Strahan/Plaxico? Or the Falcons with Abraham and Finneran? No, they kept the vets they needed to and put young talent around them. We could throw examples at each other all day, but the truth is all these decisions will be made independent of an rebuilding formula. Urlacher and Briggs are proving they can still play very well, and any replacements would be an immediate downgrade.

He is not a bust. He's a disappointment but certainly not a bust. He's no Matt Leinart.

You're ignoring a huge amount of roster turnover and star dumping that those teams did in the process of putting young talent around those veterans. I can list it all if you want, but they all did the equivalent of dumping Derrick Brooks at some point.

Maybe the Bears could get away with keeping them. Personally, if I were to find a young linebacker that I felt was going to play well in the NFL, I would quickly dump Urlacher or Briggs. The most important thing for the Bears is that they get away from the mentality that they're only a few players away, when in fact they're many players away.

I don't think they're a few players away, but I think they do have a lot of talent to build on. Knox is on pace for over 1,000 yards, Olsen is crazy talented, if they got another good RB they'd have a knockout 1-2 punch with Forte, and Hester's always a threat. Then they have some developing talents like Aromashadu, Bennett could be a great 3rd receiver, their secondary is stacked with young talent. It'd be foolish to just drop all these guys. They might be a ways away from a Super Bowl, but in their division they're only good coaching away from a playoff appearance.

Never said they should dump any part of the offense except the O-line. I said they should drop the O-line and most of the defense. I still think that. And I wouldn't call their secondary "stacked with young talent". Most starters are in their late 20s and would be classified as "serviceable NFL starters" rather than "stacked young talent". A secondary "stacked with young talent" is what the Chiefs have.