Yeah no. First, passer rating is a lousy statistic. While Orton has had a great year this year a lot of it has to do with Josh McDaniels scheme that with better players resulted in the best NFL offense ever and even made Matt freaking Cassel look like a pro bowler. Denver still has that line that Cutler had which was the bigger deal than Marshall (Lloyd is just as talented btw he just was a headcase everywhere else). As far as the Bears Chris Williams was pretty fucking talented but he got hurt at the start of the year.
Yeah no. If you want to look at INTs, INTs say Orton was better. Their record was the same Orton's first season. You wanna look at TDs, Cutler was better by 4, whoop-de-do he threw 6 more INTs to get there. He threw about 700 more yards on 60 more pass attempts. Certainly doesn't justify the trade value whatsoever and if you just compare their stats in the same year, with Orton in Denver and Cutler in Chicago, Orton still looks like the better QB.
Shanahan was more a running offense coach than a passing offense coach (if you don't believe me look at what he did even with Elway in Devner). McDaniels is a passing offense coach to the extreme (again as he proved with Brady in 07 and Cassel in 08). Also the line is the same personnel except older and more experienced. That makes a big fucking difference.
Jake. Fucking. Plummer.
Your line point would hold if Tyler Polumbus and Zane Beadles were the same person as Ryan Harris, or J.D. Walton were the same person as Casey Wiegman, or Russ Hochstein were the same person as Ben Hamilton, but they aren't. You can hinge everything on Ryan Clady, but he was pretty much a BAMF from the moment he came into the league.
Urlacher and Briggs have both played out of their minds this year. They might not be in Chicago for another 10 years, but there's no reason to get rid of them, they can help keep the defense strong while the newbies learn their way. How did the Bucs do the year or two after they let Brooks go? One of the worst teams in the league, if I remember right.
Yeah I didn't really think too deeply about the Chargers analogy. I was just saying you wouldn't have to completely start from scratch and assume you'd only win 4 games the next year.
Lovie's a pretty good coach, but that means the Bears could never be better than "pretty good." He's a good coach for a winning team, but if the team struggles he's not the best motivator, and its his job to get the most out of his players, which isn't happening. I love Lovie, and I'm not trying to blame all the Bears woes on him, but the Bears have been stagnant for three years, and the only way to fix that is a culture change. If the head coach can't provide that, its time for a new coach.
Oh yeah the Bucs were terrible right after they let Brooks go. But it had to be done. Same thing with the Titans when they dumped Samari Rolle, Steve McNair, Derrick Mason, Eddie George, etc. all over the course of a season or two. Those guys could actually still play, and a few of them took the Ravens to the AFC Championship game, but the Titans had already held on to those guys for too long and had consecutive losing seasons as a result. Another example is the Chiefs, when they had the departure of Jared Allen, Trent Green, Damon Huard, Will Shields, Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, and Ty Law over a short period of time. They're in contention now. The Jaguars lost Jimmy Smith, Fred Taylor, Marcus Stroud, John Henderson, Paul Spicer, and Mike Peterson in a short period of time. They look like they're recovering now. Every team has to dump stars at some point.
Yards, INTs, and TDs independent of context are pretty fucking meaningless. What about first downs? Positive and successful plays. INTs and TDs are only the tip of the iceburg their and yards are pretty effectively useless. Anyhow Orton is doing plenty well this year but he's doing it with an entirely different offensive scheme.
I don't see how Jake Plummer is particularly relevant. He was never particularly great in Denver (or particularly better than he was in Arizona) and was always an up and down talent.