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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:58 am 
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MintCondition wrote:
Btw, isn't it a little embarrassing that Cuba is better at baseball than America?
not at all. we get some of our best players from there. also korea, japan, venezuela, canada, mexico and puerto rico and now, apparently, australia could be useful. the only thing that is annoying is when canadians beat us in hockey.


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:27 am 
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I've only glanced over the last few pages so idk if it's just Krym trolling or what but lolol at the thought that USA isn't>>>rest of the world, re:baseball. The best 25 or 40-man team of US-born players would smoke any other country's representatives, and would still be comfortably better than any international "All-star team" comprised of the very best players from all non-US countries. The World Baseball Classic is cute but it means nothing. The Olympics are even worse- it's not even a fucking sport there anymore, is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:45 am 
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Paulie wrote:
I've only glanced over the last few pages so idk if it's just Krym trolling or what but lolol at the thought that USA isn't>>>rest of the world, re:baseball. The best 25 or 40-man team of US-born players would smoke any other country's representatives, and would still be comfortably better than any international "All-star team" comprised of the very best players from all non-US countries. The World Baseball Classic is cute but it means nothing. The Olympics are even worse- it's not even a fucking sport there anymore, is it?

I dunno paulie wog...nicketto says cricket is way greater than baseball...what say u to that?


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:08 am 
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What I said a few pages ago still applies here I think-
Paulie wrote:
I don't really like comparing required skills/talent levels of different sports, always pretty fruitless and things can get nasty.

How I read Nick's post: "I grew up playing and watching cricket in a country with a storied cricketing tradition, and where cricket is still quite popular today; I love cricket."

Also I didn't mean to come off as nasty or disrespectful or at all nationalistic (in reality I'm the exact opposite) sounding in my first post on the page. Something like 40% of the entire MLB is comprised of non-US born athletes, and for position players the demographic breakdown is basically 50-50; the multicultural makeup of the MLB is one of my favorite things about it. The advantage the US has in elite-level pitching depth is just far too large to overcome, imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:38 am 
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Paulie wrote:
Something like 40% of the entire MLB is comprised of non-US born athletes, and for position players the demographic breakdown is basically 50-50; the multicultural makeup of the MLB is one of my favorite things about it.
Me too <3


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Paulie wrote:
How I read Nick's post: "I grew up playing and watching cricket in a country with a storied cricketing tradition, and where cricket is still quite popular today;


Ah, when I was growing up and Tony Hancock was still popular on the wireless, we could leave our front doors open with impunity and we put all unusual people in sanatoriums. It was a simpler, and in many ways, a better time.
We once got 40,000 into the Oval to watch Surrey v Kent on a wet June day, you know. 1959 I believe that was. They were hanging off the gasworks to get a better vantage point after the ground was filled to capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Paulie wrote:
I've only glanced over the last few pages so idk if it's just Krym trolling or what but lolol at the thought that USA isn't>>>rest of the world, re:baseball. The best 25 or 40-man team of US-born players would smoke any other country's representatives, and would still be comfortably better than any international "All-star team" comprised of the very best players from all non-US countries. The World Baseball Classic is cute but it means nothing. The Olympics are even worse- it's not even a fucking sport there anymore, is it?


You seem to be making weak excuses for the fact the USA is ranked behind Cuba and that you couldn't even qualify for the olympics in 2004 and thus were several places behind the converted park cricketers playing for Australia.

It's natural...you know sometimes when Australia lose certain matches I think oh if only they'd picked such and such...but it's just an excuse. The fact is America play against other countries in baseball and their selectors pick the best players available. It's just those best players aren't as good as Cuba's ... or in 1999 and 2004, Australia's.


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:46 pm 
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MintCondition wrote:
You seem to be making weak excuses for the fact the USA is ranked behind Cuba and that you couldn't even qualify for the olympics in 2004 and thus were several places behind the converted park cricketers playing for Australia.

It's natural...you know sometimes when Australia lose certain matches I think oh if only they'd picked such and such...but it's just an excuse. The fact is America play against other countries in baseball and their selectors pick the best players available. It's just those best players aren't as good as Cuba's ... or in 1999 and 2004, Australia's.


As a general rule in sports, the best players in the world are going to be making/playing for the most money. Major League Baseball- just like the NBA, NFL, NHL, ATP, PGA etc.- is far and away the most competitive league in it's sport, with far and away the most financial clout*, and far and away the largest collection of talent. It's already comprised of a significant percentage of non-US-born players from a wide variety of countries, including Cuba and Australia; franchises exhaust a fuck ton of resources on international scouting, signing kids from all over for six and seven figures, often at only 16-18 years old. You can pretty much bet if an international player is good enough to play in the big leagues, teams will know about him, and he won't be long for wherever he is. Even the best players from Japan and Cuba- where MLB teams can't just have their pick- will eventually ask to be posted (Japanese transfer/bidding system) or will try to defect (from Cuba) once they start drawing interest from MLB teams, so they have a chance to make the most money, though the % of Cubans and Japanese (and 1000x smaller Australians) playing professionally in the US is still small. There literally isn't a single above average Australian player in the MLB right now (or ever that I can remember), and while Cuba is better represented, it's only slightly so. For you to use the extremely small sample sizes at the Olympics- where the US roster contains zero major or even minor league players- and the World Baseball Classic to try and determine/prove the true quality of a country's top flight ballplayers (to say nothing of talent depth), as opposed to making your conclusion by observing infinitely larger scale statistical trends of the Major League of the US- again far and away the elite league in the world, again where players are paid the most money [aka the #1 motivator of professional athletes]- is absurd.

I'm not longer going to derail this thread with baseball talk, so if you really wanna keep up this argument, take it to the MLB thread.


*compare the average and league minimum salaries of MLB to Japan's NPBL, the world's second best league.


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:33 pm 
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MintCondition wrote:
The fact is America play against other countries in baseball and their selectors pick the best players available.
Actually, how Team USA makes 'selections', or rather, announces rosters, isn't as straight forward as I suspect it might be in Australia. Would/Do Australians say 'thanks, but no thanks' to selectors? And like I said before, and also true for Australia, injuries could play a part. I've not paid much attention to injuries lists in cricket as I don't pay a great deal of attention to selection specifics. Are they significant? By the end of a cricket season does the list of healthy bowlers get a little shaky? And again, the difference between single elimination qualifying stages and double elimination ones also changes the odds considerably.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1162 ... -to-roster (a real thread derailment, as this is NBA, but it demonstrates USA 'selector' problems -- and this is a sport the US actually cares about in regards to international competitions.)


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Paulie,

There's a difference between depth and quality of players and how a national team performs in international competition. Simple fact: Cuba is ranked higher than the USA in international baseball. This is because they have performed better than the USA in international baseball. In 2004 and 1999, Australia also performed better than the USA at international baseball.

What you should be asking yourself is why, if the USA has by far the best baseball players are they consistently ranked below Cuba in the rankings. And HOW, in 1999 and 2004, they were bested by Australia.

And Dave Nilsson, as I mentioned before, was probably Australia's most accomplished baseball player. I believe he made the MLB all stars one year. That's above average.

Cheers,
Australia


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Krym...yep injuries definitely play a big part in cricket selections, especially with fast bowlers, and some players do retire from international cricket before they're past their best (or more often retire from some forms of the game). The introduction of twenty20 and the IPL etc has made this happen more often too, especially in the poorer cricket nations.


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:17 am 
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Mint, come on over, mate: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=134&p=244372#p244372


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:05 am 
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In regards to the Ashes, does it occur during the off season for both England and Australia? Are the cricketing seasons of similar durations and matches per week are about the same for both nations, in their league/county play?


MintCondition wrote:
why, if the USA has by far the best baseball players are they consistently ranked below Cuba in the rankings.
Cuba doesn't have a lucrative professional season that the players tend to save their best efforts for? And while they might prefer to avoid international tournaments that could cause career ending/reducing injuries for little financial reward, it being a communist country, options to refuse are limited? The Cubans play harder to attract US scouts? International competitions have greater societal value in Cuba? Maybe star players get treated better by the govt than the private sector? Need more? I am intrigued by the Netherland's high ranking...I suspect that has something to do with tall pitchers.

But the history of Cuban baseball is rich. It is not an embarrassment to lose to them.
Atlantic Monthly, 1984 wrote:
During the past twenty years Cuba has dominated world amateur baseball in somewhat the way Taiwan has dominated world Little League baseball and the United States has dominated world professional baseball. The Cuban National Team has won ten World Series of Amateur Baseball and the past four gold medals for baseball at the Pan-American Games. These triumphs have been particularly gratifying for Fidel Castro, whose government has made success in baseball a priority. An opportunity for further gratification will come in July, when the Cuban National Team will appear in the United States for the first time. The Cubans will play a series of exhibition games at the Los Angeles Olympics, from July 31 to August 7. http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/is ... 6brown.htm

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=68635 But seems football is winning hearts and minds in Cuba too.

Mint, the lack of cash incentive and the unnecessary injury risk (if not exactly the scheduling, the olympics occur in the summer -- peak season for baseball) is the elephant in the room when discussing international basketball and baseball competitions for overpaid, elite US athletes. And, I wonder, if it will affect soccer/football and cricket, now that those incomes are becoming staggering too.

In the last two years football has outpaced the New York Yankees. In 2010 they were still tops, now it's...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6354899 Look at the number of IPL teams in the list. Gnarly.

Y'all have fun in the MLB thread. Nilsson very likely took steroids... an excellent point Paulie. And also a good reason why few pro ball players would get past olympic drug tests :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:30 am 
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some genuine spamming going on here i see


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 Post subject: Re: Cricket.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:14 am 
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You should read the previous page or so rv. Some good stuff in there.

Krym, the cricket seasons are basically for the duration of each countries respective summer (actually a little longer...the Australian cricket season is basically late spring to early autumn...not sure about england's). The Ashes are played either in the Australian summer or the English summer. The international teams play all year round though really, with breaks here and there.

And Nilsson didn't take steroids...yet he was still good among all those cheats. If he'd have taken steroids (or if everyone else had been clean) he'd have been the best player in MLB by far. Probably ever.


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