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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:12 pm 
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Raffy was caught with steriods...he didnt just play in the era.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:25 pm 
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3,000 hits and 500 homers don't lie. Mac had 1626 for comparison. I'll take 40-hr-a-year Raffy any day.

That character clause is SECONDARY to stats for a reason.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:22 pm 
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Ace of Spades wrote:
3,000 hits and 500 homers don't lie. Mac had 1626 for comparison. I'll take 40-hr-a-year Raffy any day.

That character clause is SECONDARY to stats for a reason.


Yes they do because hits are the most disgustingly overrated benchmark stat of all time. Babe Ruth doesn't have 3,000 hits and yet it doesn't change the fact that he is far and away the greatest hitter who ever lived. He just had guys pitch the fuck around him and a great eye to take walks as well. When he did hit they were much more valuable.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:48 pm 
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It takes a HOF-worthy player to get 3,000. The guys who are within 100, even most of those within 200 of that are pretty good company, with few clear non-HOFers. I'm not saying it's not overrated, but it is a decent benchmark. Statistical gerrymandering is common for borderline guys, but come on, 3,000/500 is pretty damn impressive–Aaron, Murray, Mays, Raffy. Sounds like a group of Hallers to me.

Raffy's still one to me, even with PED use.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:32 pm 
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Ace of Spades wrote:
It takes a HOF-worthy player to get 3,000. The guys who are within 100, even most of those within 200 of that are pretty good company, with few clear non-HOFers. I'm not saying it's not overrated, but it is a decent benchmark. Statistical gerrymandering is common for borderline guys, but come on, 3,000/500 is pretty damn impressive–Aaron, Murray, Mays, Raffy. Sounds like a group of Hallers to me.

Raffy's still one to me, even with PED use.


Not if you adjust for the offensive friendly era (I'm not just talking about steroids but band box parks and strong offensive performance all around). I don't see Palmiero as head and shoulders ahead of everyone in his era. He certainly isn't first ballot material.

And the number of guys without the benchmark who are clearly better the Palmiero is humongous.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:49 am 
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He cheated, so he shouldn't be in. Whys that hard to think about? Plus he was never at any point one of the 10 great players in the league; he was a first basemen who ate up numbers because he stayed healthy a long period of time. The 90s Eddie Murray


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:49 pm 
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And Murray was a first-balloter. What does that tell you about HOF voters?


Last edited by Comfort_Eagle on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:51 pm 
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That I disagree with who they vote in?


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Somewhat related: Willie Stargell can get in even though he distributed amphetamines to teammates and his team was the center of the early 80s cocaine scandal, but using steroids is different? Give me a god damn break. Keeping out players from the roids era but not the coke era "on principle" is a ridiculous argument. I'm not talking just about Palmeiro either.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Pretty sure cocaine negtively effects your body, where as PED ENHANCE your performance and ability to recover from injury. Also you're going on random rants


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Cocaine was and is FEDERALLY illegal, not just through MLB. Making an exception for steroids is indefensible.

Roids have side effects too. Just ask Chris Benoit.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:41 pm 
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Illegal, sure, but so is weed; im not going to ban players that smoke weed. Thats ridiculous. Youre making wild jumps in logic, too. Im not banning players that use roids because its banned, i could give a fuck, its a banned substance because of its added effects. Cool, roids have side effects, but it also ENCHANCES the performance of the baseball players, therefore, they are cheating. No?


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Yes. Gaylord Perry doctored the ball, so why the hell is he in?


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Please, stick to one subject at a time. One. i dont control the voting of them. Two. Did everyone know about it. Three. Did it effect the ball as much as you think it does? Four. How many instances did this occur

Also, not having this argument anymore. its annoying. Fine, let everyone in. cool beans.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:00 am 
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Chemical Ali wrote:
He cheated, so he shouldn't be in. Whys that hard to think about? Plus he was never at any point one of the 10 great players in the league; he was a first basemen who ate up numbers because he stayed healthy a long period of time. The 90s Eddie Murray


He cheated in the same way that Aaron cheated with Amphetamines (neither were banned by baseball). Also Gaylord Perry admitted to deliberately throwing spitballs (actually banned by baseball rules). But we should keep say Barry Bonds out of the hall because he cheated in a way we didn't like.

Your latter point is fine but the former point is absurd.


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