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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:40 pm 
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George wrote:
they easily could have formed a dynasty... if roy and oden they didn't have chronically bad legs... i'm not even a blazers fan but i feel very bad for you guys.


btw, pave said ginobili is the most underrated nba player now (or of all-time?).... i don't know about all-time, but i think andre miller is even more underrated among all players from the past generation. george karl called him among the 10 best PGs of all time, and i can't disagree... if we're talking pound-for-pound best pure point guards ever...

btw i also find it endearing and hilarious that he's probably got the worst hops of anyone in the league and he's not even white :lol:


I think he'd struggle to be the ten best of his generation. Seems like a major overstatement. Don't know why pound for pound would matter. You'd really have to define pure (and anyway you would do it would seem reductive to me).


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:45 pm 
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someday you'll be world-famous and legendary and will be feared and known around the world's courtrooms as simply "corrections"... maybe you'll legally change your name to it by then, too...

anyway, lemme 'splain... pound-for-pound is important to mention because oliver miller was an even better passer than his younger brother andre, but he had the advantage of being large and fat. same reason nikolai valuev is not a better p4p boxer than chris childs.

as for purity... just trust me...
does that argument work in the courtroom?
no? oh.... let's see... well, if you took the position of "point guard" and tried to distill it down to some essential qualities associated with/important to this position - quality of passing, setting up teammates, court vision, knowing when to take over, defending the opposing pg, etc (and discarded things like shooting, athleticism, size, quickness, etc)... you might get a creature called "pure point guard". the parameters of its existence are arbitrary and arguable but you'd have to use your imagination in any case.
for example, brevin knight could never be anything else on the basketball court, because he was tiny and couldn't shoot, but, by god, he was a GREAT pure point guard. mind-bogglingly good. if he could shoot a bit and wasn't so brittle, he'd be in the conversation for 10 greatest pure point guards ever, too. i'm quite sure of it.
from this generation, i'd place only chris paul as better than andre miller as far as pure point guards (and he's arguably on the way to being the greatest ever)... deron williams is probably on the same level... steve nash would be up there too except he couldn't guard yi jianlian's chair if his life depended on it; forgive the cliche... maybe rondo... but who else is there?? rose? westbrook? :lol:

miller is probably the best player of his generation never to make the all star-team, along with lamar odom... except lamar's gifts have been well-appreciated, especially in the recent years.... whereas miller has never played for a big market team, has never been given the reigns of a good team so he's never had much team success or gone far in the playoffs, he's one of the least flashy players in the league (especially for a ball-handler), has an old man's game, and a has a very dry non-media-friendly personality. kind of like the john stockton of this generation, and i'm sure if he had the same long-term support of a great successful organization like utah jazz, it wouldn't be a ridiculous idea calling him one of the greatest pg's ever, as it is with stockton. now i wonder how awesome utah would have been with miller instead of this sorry excuse for a point guard named devin harris...


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:19 am 
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George wrote:
george karl called him among the 10 best PGs of all time, and i can't disagree... if we're talking pound-for-pound best pure point guards ever...


Actually, I think I can name more than 10 PGs greater who are no more than ten pounds heavier. Pound-for-pound is a weird argument to make for a PG since they're almost always the lightest player on the court.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:35 am 
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:lol:
pgm, correction, and everyone else: i didn't mean use the phrase "pound for pound" literally... it hasn't to do with weight at all... more like "proportionally to one's natural/physical/athletic gifts"...

e.g., andre miller is a frighteningly effective point guard considering he is very slow, can't jump, etc... though he is a very strong SOB. but, for example, compare him to baron davis - for me, the epitome of a physically gifted point guard, the lebron james of point guards - absurdly quick, strong, and athletic. almost every other point guard (maybe outside of derrick rose) would kill to have b-diddy's physical talents. yet i think he greatly underachieved, considering all that.

btw, RIP, b-diddy's career... :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:34 am 
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Let's just say he's one of the most underrated ever. The guy's never made an all-star game--injustice.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:27 pm 
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George wrote:
someday you'll be world-famous and legendary and will be feared and known around the world's courtrooms as simply "corrections"... maybe you'll legally change your name to it by then, too...

anyway, lemme 'splain... pound-for-pound is important to mention because oliver miller was an even better passer than his younger brother andre, but he had the advantage of being large and fat. same reason nikolai valuev is not a better p4p boxer than chris childs.

as for purity... just trust me...
does that argument work in the courtroom?
no? oh.... let's see... well, if you took the position of "point guard" and tried to distill it down to some essential qualities associated with/important to this position - quality of passing, setting up teammates, court vision, knowing when to take over, defending the opposing pg, etc (and discarded things like shooting, athleticism, size, quickness, etc)... you might get a creature called "pure point guard". the parameters of its existence are arbitrary and arguable but you'd have to use your imagination in any case.
for example, brevin knight could never be anything else on the basketball court, because he was tiny and couldn't shoot, but, by god, he was a GREAT pure point guard. mind-bogglingly good. if he could shoot a bit and wasn't so brittle, he'd be in the conversation for 10 greatest pure point guards ever, too. i'm quite sure of it.
from this generation, i'd place only chris paul as better than andre miller as far as pure point guards (and he's arguably on the way to being the greatest ever)... deron williams is probably on the same level... steve nash would be up there too except he couldn't guard yi jianlian's chair if his life depended on it; forgive the cliche... maybe rondo... but who else is there?? rose? westbrook? :lol:

miller is probably the best player of his generation never to make the all star-team, along with lamar odom... except lamar's gifts have been well-appreciated, especially in the recent years.... whereas miller has never played for a big market team, has never been given the reigns of a good team so he's never had much team success or gone far in the playoffs, he's one of the least flashy players in the league (especially for a ball-handler), has an old man's game, and a has a very dry non-media-friendly personality. kind of like the john stockton of this generation, and i'm sure if he had the same long-term support of a great successful organization like utah jazz, it wouldn't be a ridiculous idea calling him one of the greatest pg's ever, as it is with stockton. now i wonder how awesome utah would have been with miller instead of this sorry excuse for a point guard named devin harris...


Well then here's the deal. Miller isn't even a top five pure point in his generation. Offhand among active players Paul, Williams, Nash, Rondo, and Kidd are greater pure point guards among active players. That's going to be very tough to defend Miller's inclusion given that list right there that he can't even make it on (and that's not even including the slashing point guards from this generation that would be better but given that you narrowly defined pure I'll leave you alone on that).


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:27 pm 
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pgm wrote:
Let's just say he's one of the most underrated ever. The guy's never made an all-star game--injustice.


Until you look at the guys playing point guard in this league while he's been playing.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:18 am 
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looking at his career statistics, i'm not sure i get what makes him so great


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:24 am 
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In terms of pounds, #1 point guard has to be Raymond Felton. Dude is thick


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:25 pm 
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LeBron James reportedly wins his third MVP.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Bah. The Heat suck.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Yay! Sixers win. Anyone find Doc ordering the intentional foul with 25 seconds left (and the Sixers up one) to be a bit odd.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:22 pm 
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OKC is raping LA.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:29 pm 
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they're going to need pregnancy tests after tonight.

i'm sorry, rape is not funny.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:34 pm 
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corrections wrote:
OKC is raping LA.


Now Kobe knows how it feels.


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