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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:41 pm 
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Dipsoid wrote:
Hmmm, Astro Boy really should be top ten or fifteen, considering he's almost like Japan's Micky Mouse..


Well, actually it could be easily argued that Doraemon is "Japan's Mickey Mouse". It had an animated series that ran for almost thirty years non-stop, and the character is insanely popular. However, the series was never imported to the United States.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:36 am 
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Dipsoid wrote:
Floyo Mounier wrote:
Sorry, but, am I really the only one who thinks Tom and Jerry is EASILY the #1 most important cartoon of all time?


Yes, you are. It owes a lot to early Merry Melodies/Loony Toons.


Actually I'd say MGM era Tex Avery was a much stronger influence on Tom and Jerry than any of the WB stuff.

The first few Tom and Jerry shorts were a bit on the bland side, they were more conservatively animated, like a Disney short. Tom and Jerry didn't really find it's direction until 1943 after Avery joined MGM and the super talented animator Kenneth Muse joined Hanna and Barbera's crew. That's the point where the series began to follow Avery's example and absorb his fast paced style, edgy humor and wacky character animation. Overall this became what I like to call the MGM style of golden age animation.

At that point I'd say Tom and Jerry and the Avery shorts had their own style that was distinct from what the WB guys like Clampett, Freleng, Jones and Tashlin were doing at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:22 pm 
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What's the breakdown between Flintstones and South Park?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:27 pm 
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There is no justification for Thundercats ranking higher than He-man and the Masters of the Universe. In fact, He-man and the Masters of the Universe could arguably rank higher than Transformers and G.I. Joe, as it's the first notable cartoon that's primarily a marketing tool for a toy line.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:29 pm 
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Er, I'd say

Critical acclaim: South Park
Popularity: The Flinstones?
Influence: The Flintstones
Impact: South Park
Innovation: South Park
Cultural significance: South Park


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:35 am 
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I dunno about impact.

The Flintstones definitely had impact on the animation medium. It was the first prime time animated show. The first animated show to be structured like a family sitcom. And it further proved that limited animation had massive mainstream appeal and really put Hanna-Barbera studios on the map, making them the dominant force in tv animation for the 60s and 70s.

I'm personally not a big fan of the show myself. I most definitely prefer South Park. But at least as far as the more objective parts of the criteria go (influence, impact) there are definitely strong arguments in The Flintstone's favor. Not to say South Park doesn't fare well in those categories.

South Park is overall a more well rounded show when looking at the whole criteria. So it probably should be above The Flintstones.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:40 am 
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Oh and Zach, this list is looking real good (though there's still a lot more arguing for me to do), and the photo collage is a nice touch.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:16 pm 
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I agree with Sherick's breakdown, except for impact, which I gave to Flintstones -- basically for the reasons boo boo provided. Honestly, either one could work at #5. In the end, I leaned towards giving the spot to Flintstones, since it's just more of a cartoon classic.


Last edited by Zach on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:19 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
There is no justification for Thundercats ranking higher than He-man and the Masters of the Universe. In fact, He-man and the Masters of the Universe could arguably rank higher than Transformers and G.I. Joe, as it's the first notable cartoon that's primarily a marketing tool for a toy line.


That's a good point, Clash. At the least, He-man will overtake Thundercats.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:20 pm 
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boo boo wrote:
Oh and Zach, this list is looking real good (though there's still a lot more arguing for me to do), and the photo collage is a nice touch.


Thanks, boo boo. Keep the critiques and suggestions comin'.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Woah, a lot has changed in this list since the last time I saw it, but, from what I've seen, it's definitely been for the better. :smile:

I just wanted to focus on this:

piper wrote:
Well, actually it could be easily argued that Doraemon is "Japan's Mickey Mouse". It had an animated series that ran for almost thirty years non-stop, and the character is insanely popular. However, the series was never imported to the United States.


It may be kind of hard for American people to realize the real impact of Doraemon, but the fact is that it is HUGE. I mean, I'm from Portugal and there is a channel which has been showing Doraemon since I was little, and it is also quite popular here. In fact, this show and its characters are pretty recognizable icons amongst various European countries, and especially in Asia. It's kind of hard to put into very precise figures, but Doraemon should definitely warrant a spot amongst, at least, the top 30, if not the top 20.

If you do a bit of investigation on Doraemon, you'll easily see various achievements of this show which make my point. Just to name a few:

- As piper pointed out, it ran non-stop for almost thirty years (26, to be exact) and has a total of 1787 episodes. Just to put it in perspective, The Simpsons will have a total of 515 episodes by the end of next season.
- Doraemon was selected as one of the 22 Asian Heroes on a special issue of TIME Magazine, and was the only cartoon selected.
- There are various films and other sorts of released media based on Doraemon, including a total of 65 video games. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doraemon_media#Video_games)

Doraemon truly is the "Mickey Mouse" figure of Japan and most of Asia.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:05 am 
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Even so, Astro Boy should totally move up, he's definitely top 25 worthy.

While not THE first anime, it's the first to gain mainstream attention outside of Japan and it introduced many of the tropes and conventions that are still used in Anime to this day.

Astro Boy is very much an icon of Japanese culture in the same way Bugs Bunny and Superman are icons of American culture.

In no way, shape or form should he be below Inspector Gadget.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:59 am 
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Doraemon to ieba... (Speaking of Doraemon),
Here's a picture I took last Thursday:

Image

That's just what was in the window. I didn't take a picture of the all the merchandise inside the store. I'd say in Japan, probably only Kitty-chan is more popular.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:09 pm 
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boo boo wrote:
Even so, Astro Boy should totally move up, he's definitely top 25 worthy.

While not THE first anime, it's the first to gain mainstream attention outside of Japan and it introduced many of the tropes and conventions that are still used in Anime to this day.

Astro Boy is very much an icon of Japanese culture in the same way Bugs Bunny and Superman are icons of American culture.

In no way, shape or form should he be below Inspector Gadget.


Doraemon, as pgm said, Doraemon is ridiculously more influential than pretty much every other Asian cartoon.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Cartoons (Under Revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:57 pm 
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my extent of what I know about Doraemon comes from Wizard's awful Anime Insider magazine (which thank goodness was canceled before it reached its 30th issue) and TV Tropes.

Doreamon seems OK at #59, but it could move up about 5-10 spaces. I didn't know about any popularity outside of Japan until Lostio's comment, so I suppose that its just not particularly well known in the Anglosphere aside from hardcore otaku.


Now, what about Ralph Bakshi's "Mighty Mouse: The New Adventures"? Its influence, importance and impact are completely separate from the original. Almost every big name in 90's animation worked on it (the most notable being Bruce Timm and John K.) and its style, content and scripting pretty much changed expectations of what television animation could do.


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