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?
Venom 20%  20%  [ 3 ]
Slayer 60%  60%  [ 9 ]
Mercyful Fate 20%  20%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 15
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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:11 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Then tell me who sounded like them before 1982? And no, Judas Priest doesnt count because there was a totally different aesthetic to their music. Priest never did anything that sounds like "Satan's Fall", for instance.


Don't say the band whose sound they are obviously trying very hard to ape? OK. Honestly they don't sound that distinct from Diamond Head combined with Priest (and not a little derivative and similar to what Metallica and then Megadeth sounded like). The vocals are basically a direct attempt to ape Rob Halford and to deny that is absolutely silly (regardless of the "aesthetic"). Those are all contemporaries whose sound influence were far more important. I'll give you lyrics but only because I can't be fucked to look up who started the aggressively juvenile lyrical trend that they embody. I don't know what that really gives you. Sonic influence matters far more. Explain to me who you think took major influence from Mercyful Fate who actually matters?

Edit: Not to mention sounding very similar to Venom themselves in terms of the heaviness and the tempo.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:31 pm 
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This poll is so lame.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:36 am 
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corrections wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
Then tell me who sounded like them before 1982? And no, Judas Priest doesnt count because there was a totally different aesthetic to their music. Priest never did anything that sounds like "Satan's Fall", for instance.


Don't say the band whose sound they are obviously trying very hard to ape? OK. Honestly they don't sound that distinct from Diamond Head combined with Priest (and not a little derivative and similar to what Metallica and then Megadeth sounded like). The vocals are basically a direct attempt to ape Rob Halford and to deny that is absolutely silly (regardless of the "aesthetic"). Those are all contemporaries whose sound influence were far more important. I'll give you lyrics but only because I can't be fucked to look up who started the aggressively juvenile lyrical trend that they embody. I don't know what that really gives you. Sonic influence matters far more. Explain to me who you think took major influence from Mercyful Fate who actually matters?

Edit: Not to mention sounding very similar to Venom themselves in terms of the heaviness and the tempo.



Ask Fenriz (kinda long, Check out starting around 8:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRNf_72h2LE
EDIT:
This link worked this morning when I posted it. It is Fenriz black metal university part 1. I don't know WTF happened, maybe "someone" doesn't want you to see it, (fuck off bitch), as it explains Mercyful Fates influence on black metal.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:22 am 
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Quote:
Don't say the band whose sound they are obviously trying very hard to ape? OK.


So just because Diamond is a Halford wanna-be, that means they sound just like Judas Priest in general?
Fate mostly played a much slower and more menacing style of metal.

Quote:
Honestly they don't sound that distinct from Diamond Head combined with Priest (and not a little derivative and similar to what Metallica and then Megadeth sounded like).


Diamond Head were more on the 'hard rock' side of metal with a big Zeppelin influence thrown in the mix. There was nothing hard rock or bluesy about Mercyful Fate, they were metal straight down the line.

Quote:
The vocals are basically a direct attempt to ape Rob Halford and to deny that is absolutely silly (regardless of the "aesthetic").


Yes, the vocals, which are merely one aspect of the entire sound.

Quote:
I'll give you lyrics but only because I can't be fucked to look up who started the aggressively juvenile lyrical trend that they embody.


Your opinion of it being "juvenile" doesnt change the fact that it became a HUGE part of most extreme metal that followed.
It was really Venom that started it, but MF were largely the ones that most bands were imitating stylistically.

Quote:
I don't know what that really gives you. Sonic influence matters far more. Explain to me who you think took major influence from Mercyful Fate who actually matters?


Practically the whole of the black metal genre itself?

Quote:
Not to mention sounding very similar to Venom themselves in terms of the heaviness and the tempo.


Am I arguing with a box here?
Venom had a VERY big punk influence on their style. Just because MF played some fast songs doesn't mean they are similar to Venom...I really don't know where you're getting this.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Quote:
Don't say the band whose sound they are obviously trying very hard to ape? OK.


So just because Diamond is a Halford wanna-be, that means they sound just like Judas Priest in general?
Fate mostly played a much slower and more menacing style of metal.

Quote:
Honestly they don't sound that distinct from Diamond Head combined with Priest (and not a little derivative and similar to what Metallica and then Megadeth sounded like).


Diamond Head were more on the 'hard rock' side of metal with a big Zeppelin influence thrown in the mix. There was nothing hard rock or bluesy about Mercyful Fate, they were metal straight down the line.

Quote:
The vocals are basically a direct attempt to ape Rob Halford and to deny that is absolutely silly (regardless of the "aesthetic").


Yes, the vocals, which are merely one aspect of the entire sound.

Quote:
I'll give you lyrics but only because I can't be fucked to look up who started the aggressively juvenile lyrical trend that they embody.


Your opinion of it being "juvenile" doesnt change the fact that it became a HUGE part of most extreme metal that followed.
It was really Venom that started it, but MF were largely the ones that most bands were imitating stylistically.

Quote:
I don't know what that really gives you. Sonic influence matters far more. Explain to me who you think took major influence from Mercyful Fate who actually matters?


Practically the whole of the black metal genre itself?

Quote:
Not to mention sounding very similar to Venom themselves in terms of the heaviness and the tempo.


Am I arguing with a box here?
Venom had a VERY big punk influence on their style. Just because MF played some fast songs doesn't mean they are similar to Venom...I really don't know where you're getting this.


No. It's Venom who started that trend and who is the most cited. MF don't really have a Black Metal aesthetic to them at all (which is a more stripped down sound with hints of punk). Mercyful Fate sound too clean (and the long instrumental passages aren't typical of early Black Metal). As for the similarities in Venom's sound they're there. I actually got all my similarity comparisons just by listening to the example you decided to cite next to Am I Evil by Diamond Head (which is not appreciably less heavy than Satan's Fall). Similarly I also cross compared it to Welcome to Hell by Venom which is actually significantly heavier and significantly more Black Metal sounding. Mercyful Fate sounds far more thrash than Black Metal (excluding lyrical content which is really the least important part of the Black Metal sound). Now their influence on Thrash is clearly limited because they were well preceded by Diamond Head and Motorhead (the two most directly influential bands for the Metallica and Megadeth sound). Those bands have far more influence on Thrash enough to the point where there is little left over for Mercyful Fate. And in Black Metal they don't sound particularly Black Metal and were preceded both in lyrical content and heaviness by Venom a true pioneer in the genre. Now as I've said they are of at best secondary importance. You want to argue secondary importance that's fine. But they were not doing anything particularly new or interesting with their sound.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:02 pm 
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This is just going to go on and on.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Mercyful Fate were less tongue-in-cheek than Venom, although equally ridiculous. They didn't really do anything that "new" musically but their cultural impact is significant, not that that really matters much anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Those are probably the funniest posts I will never read. Just skimming them and knowing they exist is making me laugh so hard.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:40 am 
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:snacks:


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:02 am 
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Sodacake wrote:
This is just going to go on and on.


Then why post here?


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:25 pm 
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We have a running pool going to see how long it goes.

That and we like encouraging you.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Darkspace


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:30 pm 
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did you get those pugs i ordered for you

because someone give this man a pug damnit he's always right


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:58 am 
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Quote:
No. It's Venom who started that trend and who is the most cited. MF don't really have a Black Metal aesthetic to them at all (which is a more stripped down sound with hints of punk).


I already said that Venom were largely the ones who started the trend. Selective reading much?
And MF don't have to actually BE a black metal band themselves to have influence on the genre. If I said otherwise, then I'm wrong, but I don't think I did.

Quote:
As for the similarities in Venom's sound they're there.


The only similarities are that they're both metal bands and they both write lyrics about Satan. That's about as far as it goes.
The punk influence in Venom's music is so apparent that I dont know how you could miss it.

Quote:
Mercyful Fate sounds far more thrash than Black Metal (excluding lyrical content which is really the least important part of the Black Metal sound).


Which songs? Granted, they played some fast tunes, but I would never consider them thrash.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big 3 Of "Evil" Metal
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Quote:
No. It's Venom who started that trend and who is the most cited. MF don't really have a Black Metal aesthetic to them at all (which is a more stripped down sound with hints of punk).


I already said that Venom were largely the ones who started the trend. Selective reading much?
And MF don't have to actually BE a black metal band themselves to have influence on the genre. If I said otherwise, then I'm wrong, but I don't think I did.

Quote:
As for the similarities in Venom's sound they're there.


The only similarities are that they're both metal bands and they both write lyrics about Satan. That's about as far as it goes.
The punk influence in Venom's music is so apparent that I dont know how you could miss it.

Quote:
Mercyful Fate sounds far more thrash than Black Metal (excluding lyrical content which is really the least important part of the Black Metal sound).


Which songs? Granted, they played some fast tunes, but I would never consider them thrash.


I think I should just stop this discussion right now because I've just remembered that you're impossible to convince of any view you don't already hold. The punk influence in Venom's music is irrelevant to the sound. Mercyful Fate's music is not of the blazing speed thrash variety but is well within the genres normal conventions. I mean Satan's Fall is a thrash song with lyrics about satan. I don't know how you think that isn't a thrash song. In any case they don't sound very Black Metal so I don't know why you'd consider them that.


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