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 Post subject: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:54 pm 
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I'll wait for some discussion before I put up an official top 5 or 10.

Criteria:
Influence (how much influence the singer had on future vocalists/how the singer influenced the evolution of rock vocals)
Musical Impact (overall acclaim)
Skill (versatility, technical ability)

Hopefully Sampson will stick around and contribute a little here and there.

1. Aretha Franklin
2. Freddie Mercury
3. Elvis Presley
4. Clyde McPhatter
5. Sam Cooke
6. Whitney Houston
7. Jackie Wilson
8. Robert Plant
9. Roy Orbison
10. Etta James
11. Little Richard
12. Marvin Gaye
13. Solomon Burke
14. Michael Jackson
15. Mariah Carey
16. Roger Daltrey
17. Roy Hamilton
18. Patti LaBelle
19. Ian Gillan
20. Steve Perry


Last edited by Negative Creep on Wed May 29, 2013 10:06 am, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:00 pm 
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And here we go! :cop:
I hope this time it's for real! :tiphat:


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Oh it's for real alright!

I think the top 5 of Merc/McPhatter/Cooke/Franklin/Presley should be set in stone. The problem is how to rank them.

I really want to add creativity as a criteria, which would be comprised of phrasing and uniqueness (in which Mercury would pretty much kill everyone), but it would be too subjective. :mad:


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:13 am 
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My proposed top 5:

1. Aretha Franklin
2. Freddie Mercury
3. Elvis Presley
4. Clyde McPhatter
5. Sam Cooke

My reasoning for Aretha at #1 is that she is simply the most well-rounded in all three criterion. She just kills in each of them.

Freddie vs. Elvis is tough and, to be honest, it could go either way.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:45 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
I'll wait for some discussion before I put up an official top 5 or 10.

Criteria:
Influence (how much influence the singer had on future vocalists/how the singer influenced the evolution of rock vocals)
Musical Impact (overall acclaim)
Skill (versatility, technical ability)

Hopefully Sampson will stick around and contribute a little here and there.


I assume that Musical Impact in this case means acclaim for their vocals only, not their overall music and arrangements and presence, right?


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:46 am 
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Indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:15 am 
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And vocalists like Lennon, Dylan, Jagger, Brown, Charles and Morrison, where would they be placed?


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:24 am 
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Echoes wrote:
And vocalists like Lennon, Dylan, Jagger, Brown, Charles and Morrison, where would they be placed?


Lennon, Dylan, Jagger and Morrison certainly will not be top 20, if that's what you're asking.
They were higher on the other list because musical impact had a different definition. This definition of musical impact is simply acclaim for VOCALS alone. Nothing else. In that sense, none of the guys you mentioned, except Ray Charles, are top 20.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
And vocalists like Lennon, Dylan, Jagger, Brown, Charles and Morrison, where would they be placed?


:roll:

Ray's got some influence and versatility and some impact, but technically he was not great. Lennon doesn't score in anything. Brown and Dylan have some influence, a little versatility too, as Bob would change his style for different albums, and James had distinctively different approaches for ballads, gospel-soul and funk, but both do absolutely awful in the other areas. Morrison has some impact and influence, but was below average in the others.

There are SO many more deserving names that I doubt any of them would crack the Top 100, other than Ray. Morrison maybe in the 90's or so, but that's just a rough guess. You need to remember there are lots of rock styles over the years where the emphasis is mainly on vocals, that's the primary focus of the records, so most of the acclaim comes from that area and the skill level to be successful in those fields is much higher. These guys you brought up were doing records where the writing, lyrics, avant garde production, etc, were the focale points, not the vocals, so to be saying that they're deserving of making the list just because of their overall name recognition is the absolute worst way to approach this. Those names make the lists where the topic is centered on their greatest strengths, not their weaker points, as is the case here.

Seriously, Echoes, would any of them come close in the criteria to Teddy Pendergrass, James Taylor, Lauryn Hill, Aaron Neville, Cass Elliott, Johnny Moore, Mavis Staples, Dion, Christina Aguilera, Little Willie John, Alicia Keys, Wilson Pickett, Brian and Carl Wilson, and literally hundreds more? Of course not, so why even bring them up, especially at this point?


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:30 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
My proposed top 5:

1. Aretha Franklin
2. Freddie Mercury
3. Elvis Presley
4. Clyde McPhatter
5. Sam Cooke

My reasoning for Aretha at #1 is that she is simply the most well-rounded in all three criterion. She just kills in each of them.

Freddie vs. Elvis is tough and, to be honest, it could go either way.


I'm inclined to agree that Aretha is #1 here.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
Echoes wrote:
And vocalists like Lennon, Dylan, Jagger, Brown, Charles and Morrison, where would they be placed?


:roll:

Ray's got some influence and versatility and some impact, but technically he was not great. Lennon doesn't score in anything. Brown and Dylan have some influence, a little versatility too, as Bob would change his style for different albums, and James had distinctively different approaches for ballads, gospel-soul and funk, but both do absolutely awful in the other areas. Morrison has some impact and influence, but was below average in the others.

There are SO many more deserving names that I doubt any of them would crack the Top 100, other than Ray. Morrison maybe in the 90's or so, but that's just a rough guess. You need to remember there are lots of rock styles over the years where the emphasis is mainly on vocals, that's the primary focus of the records, so most of the acclaim comes from that area and the skill level to be successful in those fields is much higher. These guys you brought up were doing records where the writing, lyrics, avant garde production, etc, were the focale points, not the vocals, so to be saying that they're deserving of making the list just because of their overall name recognition is the absolute worst way to approach this. Those names make the lists where the topic is centered on their greatest strengths, not their weaker points, as is the case here.

Seriously, Echoes, would any of them come close in the criteria to Teddy Pendergrass, James Taylor, Lauryn Hill, Aaron Neville, Cass Elliott, Johnny Moore, Mavis Staples, Dion, Christina Aguilera, Little Willie John, Alicia Keys, Wilson Pickett, Brian and Carl Wilson, and literally hundreds more? Of course not, so why even bring them up, especially at this point?


I just wanted to see the direction in which this list will be going. From your post I understand that this list will be based mainly on skill, so I will not participate given that a skill-based list do not interest me.

As I have said it before, rock history has shown us that skill is not important to be a great rock n roller.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:17 pm 
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Sorry for bringing him up this early, but I only want to namedrop him just in case:



Check this out, Neg. Tom singing rock, sounds mindblowingly good. And here's another great one:



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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
From your post I understand that this list will be based mainly on skill, so I will not participate given that a skill-based list do not interest me.


Man, there is just NO getting through to you, you're almost as bad as Stryder.

The list is not mainly based on skill. There is also musical impact, i.e. ACCLAIM AS A VOCALIST, in which Morrison, Lennon, Jagger, and Brown do not score highly at all.
Please, for the sake of our sanity, the quicker you realize this, the quicker we can all move on to a productive discussion without having to pause to explain these things to you for the eight-thousandth time.

Not to worry, Tim, Jones will be included. Certainly not top 10 or 20 though.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:14 pm 
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So....anyone else besides Zach agree with Aretha at #1? I honestly dont think anyone else does as well in all three criteria.
For instance, Mercury has the mind-blowing skill and huge acclaim, but not much evident influence. Elvis kills in influence and impact, but doesn't do quite as well in skill as Aretha and Freddie (though he's certainly no slouch).

I see Aretha as a clear #1. Discuss!


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Vocalists Of Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:18 pm 
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I can see Aretha or Mercury as number one on the list.


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