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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:00 pm 
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fusion07 wrote:
As I've said multiple times already, I don't hold the Elektric Band in the same regard you do, and Tribal Tech is one of the best fusion ensembles, ever. If I was listing simply my own favorites, there would be 10 more Tribal Tech tunes in the list. And again, as I've already stated, I think most of Corea's best work is outside the Elektric Band.


So do these lists reflect more of your opinions, or are they supposed to reflect the opinions of the majority? Because when it comes to the Elektric Band I'm not even speaking about my personal opinion. Even though I do love the Elektric Band, the reason why I believe they deserve some recognition is because they are very "prestigious" in the fusion community. I read a lot of comments about them and talk to a few musicians who regard the Elektric Band as one of the top notch fusion bands. I mean you have guys like Brand X who aren't even looked upon as being a "top notch" fusion band (they're rock/metal). Heck, you've got Sting even up on these fusion lists. Does Sister Moon really deserve to be in the top 35? It's not even fusion.

It seems that it is more of your opinion that the Elektric Band isn't that great. I just think that these lists should represent more of a "collective" opinion rather than an "individual" opinion. I'm not sure if that's what you want, but it's just my thoughts that these lists are suppossed to be based off of more what everybody thought. The point is that even if I hated the Elektric Band I would still try to get them up on these lists. Same goes for guys like Jean-Luc Ponty. He may not be my favorite player in the world, yet I believe that he too deserves some recognition on these lists due to the high recognition he has in the fusion community.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:35 am 
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It's my opinion, the opinions of musicians who play the music I talk to, and general opinion as a mix, and there is absolutely no way to quantify same. This isn't the People's Choice Awards (thank God) where popularity rules. JLP is on the lists, and quite high in the category assigned. Brand X sure as hell is fusion, whoever calls them a "metal" band is clueless. And Sting is someone who brought jazz into his music at a time where it was extremely risky and not something people thought would be commercially successful, and he did much better with it commercially than Joni Mitchell did. The stuff Sting did in the 80's and 90's with people like Kenny Kirkland, Branford Marsalis, Omar Hakim, Vinnie Colaiuta and others is his best work, and often brilliant. I've already talked (at length) about the wider definition of fusion I adopted for the purposes of these lists, and the reasons. And the subject of the EB has been overdiscussed, to death, at this point. Leave it, please.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:56 am 
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fusion07 wrote:
It's my opinion, the opinions of musicians who play the music I talk to, and general opinion as a mix, and there is absolutely no way to quantify same. This isn't the People's Choice Awards (thank God) where popularity rules. JLP is on the lists, and quite high in the category assigned. Brand X sure as hell is fusion, whoever calls them a "metal" band is clueless. And Sting is someone who brought jazz into his music at a time where it was extremely risky and not something people thought would be commercially successful, and he did much better with it commercially than Joni Mitchell did. The stuff Sting did in the 80's and 90's with people like Kenny Kirkland, Branford Marsalis, Omar Hakim, Vinnie Colaiuta and others is his best work, and often brilliant. I've already talked (at length) about the wider definition of fusion I adopted for the purposes of these lists, and the reasons. And the subject of the EB has been over discussed, to death, at this point. Leave it, please.



Fusion07 - When I said "Brand X" I meant "Planet X" :durr:. Anyhow, you did state that these are your opinions as well as the opinions of the musicians. So, what did the musicians have to say about Sting being so important in fusion? The first time I saw Sting on this list I was very surprised. I see 3 songs by Sting on the 100 Greatest Fusion Songs list, yet I don't see any songs by the fusion greats such as Jean-Luc Ponty or the Brecker Brothers? Have you not met any musicians who have thought Ponty or the Brecker Brothers to have any superb fusion songs? I'm very shocked to see three Sting songs on this fusion list, yet none by guys like the Brecker Brothers or Ponty.

By the way, you have #70 written backwards.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:01 am 
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Derek Sherinian, a friend (and I know Tony and Virgil) calls Planet X "Metal Fusion", which is a good description. There isn't a Metal band on the planet that could begin to play that stuff...it's mega difficult. The guitar parts on "Quantum" were all written for Allan Holdsworth, who recorded most of his tracks over the course of a year, then erased everything after a night at the pub, and he only ended up on two tracks with Brett Garsed playing most of the rest. "Quantum" to me is one of the best fusion recordings of the last decade, hands down, and it has more of a fusion feel than the other Planet X recordings because Virgil wrote most of the songs.

The fusion musicians I know greatly appreciate the fact I did the lists for DDD, and don't nit pick my choices, as they know we all have different opinions...they're just glad the lists exist and that I took the time to do them. A couple have wanted to know why they are placed where they are in individual instruments, but that's all. Many ask for my opinion about music and/or players, and many read what I write and are glad it's there, for which I'm honored.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Fusion 07 - Speaking of virtuosity, which band do YOU think is the most virtuosic?
I personally believe that the most virtuosic bands are The Chick Corea Elektric Band, Pat Metheny's band, and Hiromi Uehara's band.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:38 pm 
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I would pick other bands...but it's not just virtuosity that's involved, there's also chemistry...certain groups of people just play well together...and some nights are better than others. I'm much more interested in seeing people play together live than I am trying to judge something that inane based on recordings, and different people have different preferences for styles, meters, instrumentation, etc. There is no gospel on something like that.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Why are the Brecker Brothers so excluded from this list? Some Skunk Funk should probably have a place on here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIGsSLCoIhM


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Actually...Randy and Michael both have prominent places...and Dreams and one of Michael's solo records is on the albums list. I'm not that big a fan of a lot of the Brecker Brothers material...but the tune you mention is one I'll look at when I redo the lists, as it is one that's as frequently cited as any in the BB repertoire. I'll probably revisit Heavy Metal Bebop as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:06 am 
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beaverteeth92 wrote:
Why are the Brecker Brothers so excluded from this list? Some Skunk Funk should probably have a place on here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIGsSLCoIhM



Exactly! That is a song that totally deserves a top spot on this list. That's actually my favorite video of them doing Some Skunk Funk.

A few others to consider are:
1) Jean luc Ponty - Cosmic Messenger, - Overture
2) Bela Fleck and the Fleckstones - Sinister Minister, - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo
3) Pat Metheny - Roots of Coincidence (this song won a Grammy), - Last Train Home
4) Hiromi Uehara - XYZ, - Kung Fu World Champion
5) Chick Corea Elektric Band - Got a Match? (this song was discussed quiet thoroughly in the fusion section of the book for my jazz class)
6) Lee Ritenour - Captain Fingers
7) Yellow Jackets - Revelation
8) Mike Stern - Upside Downside, - Chromazone
9) The Brecker Brothers - Sponge, - Spherical, - Above and Below
10) Return to Forever - Captain Marvel
11) Miles Davis - Sanctuary
12) Roland Vasquez - No Rest For the Bones of the Dead
13) John Mclaughlin - Senor CS
14) Allan Holdsworth - Tokyo Dream

I'm not listing songs that I particularly like. I'm just listing some fusion standards as well as some newer/popular fusion tunes that aren't on this list. Considering this list was made in 2007, I think it could use some updating.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:51 am 
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Thanks for the list of your favorites...but the majority of tunes you listed are not ones I'd include...and as always, ultimately the lists on DDD are opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:27 am 
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fusion07 wrote:
Actually...Randy and Michael both have prominent places...and Dreams and one of Michael's solo records is on the albums list. I'm not that big a fan of a lot of the Brecker Brothers material...but the tune you mention is one I'll look at when I redo the lists, as it is one that's as frequently cited as any in the BB repertoire. I'll probably revisit Heavy Metal Bebop as well.


It's one of the only albums that blows my mind every time I hear it. It makes me wonder why Neil Jason never did anything after it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:48 pm 
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fusion07 wrote:
Thanks for the list of your favorites...but the majority of tunes you listed are not ones I'd include...and as always, ultimately the lists on DDD are opinions.


As I mentioned, those tunes are actually not my favorites. They are really more of the tunes that I have found the fusion community to be very fond of. Some of them are what you'd call "fusion standards". Also, considering this list was made in 2007 I think that we should give newer songs and albums a chance; for example John Mclaughlin's "Industrial Zen", Hiromi Uehara's "Another Mind", or Chick Corea's "Five Peace Band".

A lot of the songs I listed seem to be listened to/viewed/discussed thoroughly among fusion listeners. Considering their importance/popularity/impact on fusion, I think that these "standards" maybe deserve a closer look.


Last edited by izkool on Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:05 pm 
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fusion07 wrote:
I would pick other bands...but it's not just virtuosity that's involved, there's also chemistry...certain groups of people just play well together...and some nights are better than others. I'm much more interested in seeing people play together live than I am trying to judge something that inane based on recordings, and different people have different preferences for styles, meters, instrumentation, etc. There is no gospel on something like that.



Which bands would you pick? Why?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Fusion Songs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:02 am 
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Fusion07 - Have you listened to Chick Corea's Five Peace Band?

Also, why aren't there any Steely Dan songs on this list?


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