I think the Randy Jackson quote has been given too much space/priority, even if I largely agree with what he says. The new sections that attempt to split out jazz rock as something somehow different I think are a mistake. Allmusic is quoted, but it's not gospel by any means, and I find the sections claiming that Blood Sweat & Tears and Chicago weren't excellent players, or that only two records of Zappa's were fusion, as a joke. Those guys were all great players.

This sort of stuff is one of the reasons I got away from most Wikipedia editing...I have no desire to argue minutiae with 20-somethings who have read things on "credible" sources they think are gospel per Wikipedia "rules". They aren't. One of the guys noted as a source now in the Jazz Fusion article has published books, and his books are riddled with fact errors and stuff that's just plain wrong...I know the people he's writing about personally, and he's wrong, period. But Wikipedia wants to use him as a source because his mistakes have been published...no thank you.

I have asked this question before, and considering your the expert I'll ask you. What is the difference between jazz-rock and jazz fusion? Are they two terms that mean the same thing?

Already answered.

The thing at the top of my list would be Weckl's placement on the fusion drum list. If anything he should be ahead of at least Chad Wackerman and Virgil Donati. I read, listen, and hear too much of how he's the top fusion drummer. He's at least top 7.

Virgil Donati is more of a metal drummer if anything.

I've seen all three many times...and I disagree. My guess is you may have seen Dave Weckl live somewhere along the way, but maybe not. A leading L.A. drummer called me this week, and we had a long chat about clubs and music for an upcoming recording and DVD he wanted to do. I took a minute to share some of the commentary from this page with him...we both had a good laugh. I'm glad you are such a big Dave Weckl fan, I just don't rate him as highly as you do. And that's okay, on both counts.

I just don't understand how Virgil Donati, primarily a metal drummer, is ahead of Dave Weckl who is primarily a fusion drummer. Regardless of whether I like Weckl the best or not, I think anyone could see the obvious choice of who is more important in fusion drumming. If you asked drummers who their most inspirational fusion drummer was, I'm sure they'd say Weckl before Donati.

Also, could you tell me when has Peter Criss done fusion?

Hah...that's supposed to be Curt Cress...of Passport...I'll have to fix that one.

I've already told you I don't agree with you about Weckl...and why. And I know plenty of other people, especially drummers, that agree. This is why I don't edit Wikipedia any more...because of mostly 20-something students that insist their opinions are somehow right, even though their body of knowledge is usually a fraction of someone like mine as a whole. I've been listening to this stuff twice as long as you've likely been on this earth, have seen hundreds more live shows, and know hundreds and hundreds of players. You don't, and arguing about opinions is utterly pointless. Go see some live music instead of just reading AllMusic and Prog Archives, listening to CD's and watching video on YouTube. You'll learn a lot more. Enough.

Add: I quickly looked at your Wikipedia User page, and the discussion page with it. Especially the commentary/discussion from User Mac Dreamstate. You are exactly the kind of self-described "nit picker" who has to have everything as they want it (your discussion of genres, etc.) that keeps me away from Wikipedia. Your User page is loaded with typos and mistakes of the most basic form, yet you have appointed yourself an editor who wants to micro-argue points to death, and more, and thinks they are knowledgeable because they can go out and "source" things like AllMusic, which Mac Dreamstate correctly pointed to in the case of Allan Holdsworth are a complete joke. If I told Allan (an acquaintance of mine) he was an "art rock" guitarist, he'd probably spit his beer out...it's stuff like that, that really pisses him off about the Web. Like I said, no thank you...this is why I stay away from Wikipedia editing and have for years, just like dozens of other people who wrote many of the baseline articles up until 2007...we don't have the time or energy to deal with this nonsense from people who usually know far, far less than they think they do. I appreciate your bringing things to my attention here like the fusion singers discussion and my "miss" on Peter Criss/Curt Cress, and I'll try and get those addressed in the near future.

I feel like Brecker should probably be at 3 here. His solo work, work with the Brecker Brothers, session work, and the amounts of respect he commands from sax players should be enough.

I agree. He's one of the best.

He is indeed...I just prefer Bob Berg's body of fusion work, and I'm not alone among players. He's in the Top 5...and I like the order.

Honestly, I just want the Wikipedia pages I edit to model well established websites. As for typos on my user page, I can't find any?
Also, regarding Holdsworth and art-rock. That is one thing I don't like about sources. The fact that many sources do have errors is apparent. That's what I was discussing with Mac Dreamstate. I told him that Allmusic does make mistakes, as in the case with labeling Holdsworth with art rock. Also, allaboutjazz.com always labels every fusion album as "fusion/progressive rock". Why they label all the fusion albums this way puzzles me. Pretty much I feel it is the job of the Wikipedia editor to detect mistakes made on websites.
I appreciate the fact that you hate arguing with 20 year olds. Considering you know more about fusion then them, why argue? That's why I'm taking advantage to chit-chat with you considering you are supposed to be the fusion expert. You're right. I am just a punky 20 something year old, yet I am very interested in fusion since I have been listening to it since a very young age.

I'm glad you like fusion music...and hope you continue to...but nit picking details to death is something a lot of the better Wikipedia writers hate, and I'm one of them, especially on stuff like "genres" in a genre made up of multiple genres itself...that's why it's called "fusion". There is no black and white on a subject like that, and I tend to go for a broad approach when writing about it for Wikipedia, even if that definition doesn't match my personal one. Even if AllAboutJazz "mislabels" things in your opinion, they are a far more established/expert site on jazz, etc. than Wikipedia on average...an editor should have more first-hand knowledge than the material he's editing...that's a huge issue with Wikipedia...most do not.

Nit picking details to death, especially over the kinds of things you apparently have been on Wikipedia, discourages writers from spending all the time it takes to prepare something, only to see it "edited" by people who think they know more, and usually do not. I ran into this years ago on an article where I was verifying information directly with the artist, but the article got raped by a 20-something who fancied himself an expert. He wasn't, but it wasted many hours of my work, and the artist in question really got pissed...and why shouldn't they...it was something about them that would become a primary source of information online for years to come. I saw too much of that to continue to spend time trying to add much more to Wikipedia, and many, many other writers left as well over the same thing.

I understand what you mean. I usually try to just edit genres of artists/albums and races/ethnicities of people. Those are the things that I like to be without errors, because they are the easiest things to fix.

Some of the people you are "editing" on Wikipedia very vigorously disagree. If you don't know more than what's already written, and know it with certainly, try and stay away from being an editor...it makes the people who actually write the articles NUTZ.

I do know more than what's written. Just because someone else disagrees with me doesn't mean they are right. I know for a fact that what I was arguing for is right. I even got a second opinion from another Wikipedia editor who was a former jazz critic and toured with jazz fusion bands in Europe. He told the guy I was arguing with to back off, because I was right.