Brubeck's placement is based on both his solo work and his group work.

I think what I'm about to say in this paragraph is a fair representation of jazz history as it is usually written, in fact always in the writings I'm familiar with. European jazz as a whole isn't a very big part of jazz history; America dominates jazz. This was especially true prior to the late '60s, at which time the contributions of Europeans increased. And the most important European jazz artists from the late '60s to the present don't play gypsy swing. So I think this adds of to a fairly small place in jazz history for gypsy swing.

Most of the other influence you cite I haven't seen anywhere else. Christian southwestern blues based jazz is quite different from Reinhardt's gypsy folk jazz, though I wouldn't be surprised if he was a minor influence. I was say his most important influences are that he was the first major jazz figure in Europe, the first major jazz guitarist, and a major influence on many jazz guitarists of the '30s. I don't doubt that his influence was felt into the '70s, but that can be said of many others, including Christian. Tributes are indicative of the esteem of the artist's work by other musicians, so they're relevant to his placement, but they're not influence.

Django and Brubeck came up in reference to Hancock's placement on the list, so here are 2 questions for anyone who wants to answer them. (It's also OK to just answer one of them. ) Is it wrong to have an artist who emerged in the last 50 years in the top 30 of this list? Should Hancock be the highest ranking artist who emerged during the last 50 years? Clarifying the criteria, it's 1/2 influence, 1/3 the quantity of highly esteemed recorded work, and 1/6 reputation as a musician and/or composer.

Sidney Bechet was so unbelievable. His tone is among the most perfect I've ever heard

not to bring this up again, but Sarah Vaughan, Billie Holiday and Ella Fitzgerald are all here. i'm still confused on this. why are the great female vocal/jazz singers here but the great male vocal/jazz singers aren't? it seems inconsistent.

obviously there's a continuum rather than clear borders between genres, but while sinatra's reprertoire and arrangements (esp. earlier) were very jazzy, there is one element that his music has always lacked, as far as i'm aware - improvisation.
compare nat king cole's jazz and pop careers. there are poppy elements in his jazz and jazzy elements in his pop stuff, but they're clearly separable. sinatra's music is more in the middle but compared with ella fitzgerald, billie holiday, and sarah vaughan, he's bordeline or merely "close" to jazz whereas they are clearly within the idiom.

There's one great male jazz singer at #1.

I agree that Sinatra is not clearly a jazz vocalist. Other great male jazz vocalists would be Billy Eckstine or Jimmy Rushing but I don't think they need to be in the top 100.

Brian,

I have to say, this is a great list. I had to go back and read the posts, which answered some of my questions.

I would add Buddy Bolden in the "Honorable Mentions" category for his contributions, unless you're sticking to artists with recording contributions in relation to the criteria. Even if none of his recordings survived, it's pretty apparent from primary sources and ones in hindsight that he was a landmark figure in the bridging of ragtime and jazz, adding marching band music, blues, and spirituals in the mix of things (although Morton claimed he invented jazz and that Bolden only played ragtime, much to the disagreement of his peers). We also have to take into consideration the nature of early jazz music, what was called "jazz," "jas," or "jass" at the time, encompassing a variety of sounds. This is the same for early country music, then generally coined "hillbilly" or "rural folk," among other labels.

I've started working on a ragtime list years ago but haven't had any time to finish it. Obviously, it's going to include sheet music, piano rolls, etc. Also, it's a little difficult because "ragtime" comprised of a number of different styles, and some songs with "rags" were not ragtime at all.

That's the thing about jazz music...there's fluidity, just as if with a lot of musical forms.

Whether Sinatra should be on the list or not, he and Bing's careers were definitely kicked off by jazz music and significantly influenced by it. Sinatra did straight jazz, but he's much more suited as "traditional pop." Artists such as Ella Fitzgerald and Mel Torme would fit equally on jazz and traditional pop stations.

I'd say it's a case-by-case basis because you can have a brief career and still have a strong standing; I mean, on the rock side of things (since you're working on the rock artists list), we have artists such as Hendrix (brief career as a living artist) and Madonna (more recent artist of the last 30 years).

Herbie Hancock did make records that helped jazz to cross over and expand ("Chameleon," "Rockit"), but some detractors think this isn't a good thing. But then again, this was a child prodigy (performed with the Chicago Symphony), a guy who was a pivotal member of Miles' Davis seminal quintet, created the immortal Maiden Voyage, was prominent in "soul jazz" and "fusion," had his work significantly sampled, worked with some of the greatest artists around...obviously explored different sounds. A prolific composer and great musician, all around, with high esteem. He might be high, but it's not like he doesn't deserve a high position. Although I can see Django moving ahead.

Probably a better question some might ask is why is Sun Ra so high? Critics called his music either "too out there to be considered real jazz" and other negative labels, but the guy had some serious talent for his modal work in the 1950s and played an integral part in "astral jazz," "free jazz," and of the ilk and even earned the appreciation of people such as John Cage and Miles Davis. Perhaps the quintessential "jazz wizard."

Thanks, JB. I added Bolden to honorable mention.

Sun Ra might be a bit high, but some of his work is pretty highly esteemed among those who aren't purists, and he did have a lot of notable work, as you probably know.

I'm new to this forum, so I'm probably really late in terms of commenting. I like the content of the list of greats, but the order...particularly of the top 10...would be different for me. If the list is about popularity, then I guess I'm fine with it. If the list is based on influence, innovation, and contribution to the genre, I'd go with a top 10 like this:

1. Louis Armstrong
2. Duke Ellington
3. Thelonious Monk
4. Charlie Parker
5. Billie Holiday
6. Miles Davis
7. John Coltrane
8. Charles Mingus
9. Lester Young
10. Dizzy Gillespie

Same content, just dropped Basie to 11 and moved Lester Young up. Different order, however. To me, next to "Pops" and "Duke", Thelonious Monk was the most riveting and innovative jazz artist in its history. To this day, no one has been able to achieve such tonal and abstract melodies with the success of Monk. Next to "Duke", no one has written as many jazz standards as Monk. Having him at 8 is just too low.

Still a fantastic list.

Thanks Mr. Dark, and welcome to DDD.

Here's the criteria statement for the list: "Artists are judged by the influence of their music, by their artistic skills and inspiration, by the greatness of the music that they helped create, and the contributions that they made to that music." I should clarify that influence is about half of it, and that by "artistic skills and inspiration", I'm referring to generally held views of that; I'm not judging that myself. I don't believe Monk was especially influential for an artist with such a high placement, that all of the artists ahead of him are more influential, with the possible, but I think unlikely, exception of Trane. Several artists behind him are also more influential. He is indeed one of the greatest jazz composers and and has a large body of acclaimed work, but I think his #8 position sufficiently credits that.