DDD Home Page
DDD Music Lists Page
DDD Movie Lists Page
It is currently Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:27 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:42 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm
Posts: 1407
GREATEST R&B MALE VOCALISTS

EDITOR: SAMPSON
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rb-vocalists-ma.html

Vocalists are rated by their ability, in their prime, for vocal range, power, phrasing, dynamics, ability to convey emotion, versatility, uniqueness and influence.


1. Jackie Wilson
2. Roy Hamilton
3. Clyde McPhatter
4. Sam Cooke
5. Marvin Gaye
6. Tony Williams (Platters)
7. Solomon Burke
8. Levi Stubbs (Four Tops)
9. Little Willie John
10. Al Green
11. Smokey Robinson
12. Luther Vandross
13. Ronald Isley (Isley Brothers)
14. Sam Moore (Sam & Dave)
15. Stevie Wonder
16. David Ruffin (Temptations)
17. Jerry Butler
18. Jesse Belvin
19. Michael Jackson
20. Teddy Pendergrass (Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes)
21. Aaron Neville
22. Eddie Kendricks (Temptations)
23. Wilson Pickett
24. Otis Redding
25. Little Richard

26. Ben E. King
27. Big Joe Turner
28. Nate Nelson (Flamingos)
29. Frankie Lymon
30. Usher
31. Johnny Moore (Drifters)
32. BeBe Winans
33. Willie Winfield (Harptones)
34. Donny Hathaway
35. Ray Charles
36. Wayna Morris (Boyz II Men)
37. Bobby Lester (Moonglows)
38. Howard Tate
39. Garnett Mimms
40. Johnny Carter (Dells)
41. Eddie Levert (O'Jays)
42. Billy Stewart
43. Maithe Marshall (Ravens)
44. Prince
45. Philip Bailey (Earth, Wind & Fire)
46. Jimmy Ricks (Ravens)
47. Sonny Til (Orioles)
48. James Carr
49. K-Ci Hailey (Jodeci)
50. Lou Rawls

51. Little Anthony
52. O.V. Wright
53. Marvin Junior (The Dells)
54. Phillipe Wynne (Spinners)
55. Hank Ballard (Midnighters)
56. Curtis Mayfield
57. Richard Berry
58. Eugene Mumford (Larks, Dominoes)
59. Bill Withers
60. William Howard (Dramatics)
61. "Pookie" Hudson (Spaniels)
62. Barry White
63. James Brown
64. Peabo Bryson
65. Bobby Marchan
66. Shawn Stockman (Boyz II Men)
67. Gene Chandler
68. Rudy Lewis (Drifters)
69. Johnnie Taylor
70. Dennis Edwards (Temptations)
71. Johnny Adams
72. Jeffrey Osborne
73. Screamin' Jay Hawkins
74. Gene Allison
75. Russell Thompkins (Stylistics)

76. DeAngelo
77. Tevin Campbell
78. Walter Scott (Whispers)
79. Wallace Scott (Whispers)
80. Major Lance
81. James J.T. Taylor (Kool & The Gang)
82. Nolan Strong (Diablos)
83. Keith Sweat
84. Chuck Jackson
85. Rudy West (Five Keys)
86. Lionel Richie (Commodores)
87. Maxwell
88. Gerald Alston (Manhattans)
89. Frankie Beverly (Maze)
90. Sly Stone
91. Earl "Speedoo" Carroll (Cadillacs)
92. Nathan Morris (Boyz II Men)
93. Eugene Pitt (Jive Five)
94. R. Kelly
95. Harvey Fuqua (Moonglows)
96. Seal
97. Percy Sledge
98. Johnny Ace
99. Buddy Bailey (Clovers)
100. Johnny Tanner (The "5" Royales)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:03 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 4904
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Interesting, Sampson. From what I recall of the old list, Ron Isley has made a giant leap up, your top 3 being so tight all could be number 1 stance has been dropped as we see Cooke drop out to 4 and Hamilton step in at 2. What made you change your mind on these?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 1071
Location: Greg's place
going by the criteria there, Wonder and Jackson round out a good top 3.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:23 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm
Posts: 1407
Nick,
I saw that the discussion on the overall Rock Vocalist list over the past few years had taken a huge turn towards crediting the technical ability side of the equation. I had always tried to differenciate things by saying someone like Cooke (or Jesse Belvin here, or Dion in white rock) were better "singers" because of what they "did" with a song, while those like Wilson and Hamilton or Tony Williams had greater pure vocal ability. So in trying to keep the two lists using comparable rating techniques I slightly downplayed the more subjective skills - nuance and phrasing and so forth - and upgraded the vocal ability areas factors. Cooke was the weakest of the old top three in sheer technical measures whereas Hamilton is on par with Wilson for technical ability and in fact was Jackie's biggest influence, along with being a huge influence on Presley, Solomon Burke, both Righteous Brothers, particularly Bill Medley... virtually any baritone of the next generation who could specialize in dramatic ballads for that matter. Huge talent, it's too bad so much of his material and arrangements didn't live up to his skills (ironically, a lot like Jackie there as well).

Isley's tough, he's had such a long career that in all the different styles he's sang in, from gospel rooted early stuff to funk to seduction ballads, he would probably rate differently, but combining them gives him incredible versatility.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 1071
Location: Greg's place
Sampson wrote:
Nick,
I saw that the discussion on the overall Rock Vocalist list over the past few years had taken a huge turn towards crediting the technical ability side of the equation. I had always tried to differenciate things by saying someone like Cooke (or Jesse Belvin here, or Dion in white rock) were better "singers" because of what they "did" with a song, while those like Wilson and Hamilton or Tony Williams had greater pure vocal ability. So in trying to keep the two lists using comparable rating techniques I slightly downplayed the more subjective skills - nuance and phrasing and so forth - and upgraded the vocal ability areas factors. Cooke was the weakest of the old top three in sheer technical measures whereas Hamilton is on par with Wilson for technical ability and in fact was Jackie's biggest influence, along with being a huge influence on Presley, Solomon Burke, both Righteous Brothers, particularly Bill Medley... virtually any baritone of the next generation who could specialize in dramatic ballads for that matter. Huge talent, it's too bad so much of his material and arrangements didn't live up to his skills (ironically, a lot like Jackie there as well).

Isley's tough, he's had such a long career that in all the different styles he's sang in, from gospel rooted early stuff to funk to seduction ballads, he would probably rate differently, but combining them gives him incredible versatility.


I respect your knowledge of the genre, but this is so far from true vocally speaking.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:51 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 4904
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Thanks for the response, Sampson, that makes perfect sense and I look forward to casting my eye over it some more.
As a sidenote, I agree with Jester, I don't think Hamilton matches Wilson in terms of vocal chops - very, very few do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 1071
Location: Greg's place
In having said that, i think the criteria should change... the list looks rather good, but just not one based almost entirely on skill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:14 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm
Posts: 1407
Hamilton is the most frustrating artist in R&B history. He didn't have Wilson's range, very few do, and unlike Jackie who was a total showoff which catches everybody's ear, Hamilton was the picture of restraint, but listen to his best work more closely and look at the platitudes he gets from Wilson, Presley, et. all who worshipped him and modeled themselves so closely on him. Admittedly the material and arrangements can make it difficult to get into Hamilton's career at times, and even I skip over 90% of it, but he's got unbelievable power, imppecable control and makes it all seem effortless. His background his amazing - he was both classically trained, which accounts for his skill in operatic performances, and he had an extensive history in gospel, two areas that represented the pinnacle of vocal aspirations at the time.

Remember that virtually nobody here knew who Jackie Wilson was or agreed he should be anywhere close to the top of the Rock Vocalist list until I started bitching about it, so obviously there's not a bigger Jackie booster than me, and I still have him over Hamilton and think he should top both vocalist lists, but Roy Hamilton has both the pure voice and the skill to hang with anyone and it is a tragedy that he really hasn't been seriously discussed once on either thread.

Here's some cuts to get you started if you need them.

You'll Never Walk Alone (one of the most singularly influential songs of the 50's) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQze9nTh-qo

You Can Have Her - his most unabashed rock song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1mkSm00kXM

I Believe - a song both Wilson and Presley covered in homage to Roy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifpft-W5R2k

Angelica - The song Elvis was scheduled to cut in Memphis in July '69 and gave instead to Hamilton who was cutting in the next studio over. Presley's producers were stunned he'd give away what they were positive was huge hit in waiting, but Elvis was adament that Roy would do it better. It was the last session Hamilton had before his early death. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI3gKJw7RbA

Finally, my favorite Hamilton performance, a cover of Conway Twitty's It's Only Make Believe from his last sessions. He screws up the lyrics, repeating a stanza and leaving another one out, but he is the definition of measured control and to me he owns this song . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8keWbOBzCE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 1071
Location: Greg's place
we've been over him in hte vocalists forum a number of times.
He doesn't touch Jackie technically. He doesn't beat Cooke, Wonder, or Jackson technically either.
You're talking about 50% greatness, which is why i said change the criteria. He does not belong where he is technically speaking.
If you want to argue with the vocal experts, go ahead but you're going to come off as hard-headed and arrogant if you continue posting things like that...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:29 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm
Posts: 1407
I wish I had seen the Hamilton discussion on the old forum, if you have a link for the pages let me have it.

As for hard-headed and arrogant posts, that's pretty much SOP around here isn't it, so even if I was doing that I'm pretty sure I'd fit right in.

I don't see how Cooke, who I like far more than Hamilton, beats him technically. Sam had less range, less resonance and sustain, often strained to hit notes, his voice was frayed and ragged on record many times, his projection wasn't as strong and on and on. That said, what Sam Cooke did with a song was better than almost anyone, but those are more the subjective areas (at least the way I'm defining subjective), IE. the interjections, the lilting yodels, the looped refrains, etc. and his gospel sides are among the greatest recordings from a standpoint of conveying emotion that I've heard. Ironically the knock on Hamilton is that he was TOO technically proficient and thus could be accused of lacking the "soul" (that indefinable but all too evident grit) that Cooke had in spades.

But to each their own, especially with vocalists, where things like a person's appreciation of a singer's tone for example will essentially shape their entire opinion of an artist (I remember Jackie Wilson getting criticized for sounding like a frog, which in that person's mind negated all of his mindboggling skills - he just didn't like the tonal quality of his voice and nothing could change that, so I understand). Interesting to note however, that in those Hamilton clips that have slide shows, you see all of these great singers we're discussing (Cooke, Jackie, Elvis) posing with HIM rather than him approaching them, even though they were all more famous than he was at the time. The regard in which he was held by his peers borders on deification and that sometimes means more than non-professionals discussing runs and switching and trying to discern who hit the highest note. Not that those aren't important, valid and something I'm impressed has been seriously injected into DDD, but there's a reason artists were talking reverentially about Roy Hamilton for years.

Anyway, vocalist rankings are a bitch to do because of the higher mixture of subjective tastes and subjective skills that enter into it. In fact, that's what makes both vocalist and musician rankings so imprecise, but probably more fun for most people to talk about.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:13 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 3776
Location: God doesn't love us because we're good, He makes us good because He loves us.
Very informed opinions, Sampson, and interesting discussion, especially concerning Hamilton. Would you be willing to help us out in getting accurate placements for R&B vocalists on the Greatest Male Rock Vocalists list? Nick definitely knows a ton about the genre, but it's always nice to have another voice, especially since so few of us are experts on Soul or R&B.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:49 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm
Posts: 1407
Cruz wrote:
Very informed opinions, Sampson, and interesting discussion, especially concerning Hamilton. Would you be willing to help us out in getting accurate placements for R&B vocalists on the Greatest Male Rock Vocalists list? Nick definitely knows a ton about the genre, but it's always nice to have another voice, especially since so few of us are experts on Soul or R&B.


Yeah, I'd like to see that list improve. I also just checked the Greatest Technical Vocalists list and I think there were only like five or six black singers total, which is shameful. I don't think the people there are racist, I just think, like you said, so few people there listen to black rock artists that they have no idea where to start and maybe don't have the interest in it (or disposable income) to get into it and thus feel it is more defensible to leave them out altogether than to put them in and be asked questions regarding them that they can't answer.

But considering nobody ever talked about Jackie Wilson before and now he's beloved by everyone here it seems, then maybe the same can be done for another hundred or two hundred black singers as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:22 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 4904
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Sampson, I notice you've cut this down to 100 but I'll plug my old favourite Howard Tate and also Isaac Hayes. Terence Trent D'Arby too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:03 am 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm
Posts: 1407
Nick-ola wrote:
Sampson, I notice you've cut this down to 100 but I'll plug my old favourite Howard Tate and also Isaac Hayes. Terence Trent D'Arby too.


Tate's at a very respectable 38.

Isaac is unique, he often speak-sings more than flat out sings, influential for sure, but for pure voice I have him outside the top tier of vocalists that this list tries to include. I was crushed when he died so suddenly a little ways back, he was a guy who I felt still could produce great material if he was given the opportunity.

D'Arby is good, sometimes veering more towards pop than pure R&B, but a nice voice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Greatest R&B Male Vocalists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:07 pm 
Offline
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 4904
Location: http://thesportingview-kes.blogspot.com/
Sampson, Isaac Hayes is easily a top 10 artist for me, absolutely love Black Moses, Hot Buttered Soul & The Isaac Hayes Movement so I think we're on the same page. I'll have a look for some of my favourite Hayes vocals, but I take your point. Brilliant spot for Tate by the way - I missed him when I ran down the list.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:

DigitalDreamDoor.com   

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

DigitalDreamDoor Forum is one part of a music and movie list website whose owner has given its visitors
the privilege to discuss music and movies, and has no control and cannot in any way be held liable over
how, or by whom this board is used. If you read or see anything inappropriate that has been posted,
contact webmaster@digitaldreamdoor.com. Comments in the forum are reviewed before list updates.
Topics include rock music, metal, rap, hip-hop, blues, jazz, songs, albums, guitar, drums, musicians...


DDD Home Page | DDD Music Lists Page | DDD Movie Lists Page