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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:49 am 
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Rock N Herbs wrote:
Pink Floyd and King Crimson are both highly superior to Yes when it comes to influence and importance.


King Crimson? Maybe. Pink Floyd? In general sure, but within the genre of prog? Debatable.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:52 am 
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boo boo wrote:
Rock N Herbs wrote:
Pink Floyd and King Crimson are both highly superior to Yes when it comes to influence and importance.


King Crimson? Maybe. Pink Floyd? In general sure, but within the genre of prog? Debatable.

Pink Floyd's music can't really be matched to a genre. It's the kind of art no other artists compose. Prog is close to what Pink Floyd's music is which is why they are considered prog. Early in their career they were even Psychedelic.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Crimson and Floyd would be the ONLY bands that could challenge Yes for the title of "Greatest prog rock band". Imo.

I'd probably still go with the Crimson > Yes > Floyd lineup.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:02 am 
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I'm not sure about qualifying Roxy Music as prog, even though they definitely have connections to the genre (Ferry auditioning for King Crimson, Manzanera playing for Canterbury band The Quiet Sun, Jobson playing with Curved Air, Jethro Tull and UK, Eno's early albums featuring many prog musicians, etc) they're hardly seen as a prog band, they're strongly identified as glam rock and art rock, which are seen as the "cool" alternatives to prog rock. If you include them then why not David Bowie or Kate Bush?

Don't really think Gabriel belongs here either.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Rock N Herbs wrote:
Pink Floyd's music can't really be matched to a genre. It's the kind of art no other artists compose. Prog is close to what Pink Floyd's music is which is why they are considered prog. Early in their career they were even Psychedelic.


Yes yes, you really like Pink Floyd. We get it. Your argument here is asinine. What does "Prog is close to what Pink Floyd's music is" even mean? How is them being Psychedelic got to do with their greatness as a Progressive Rock band, or a band in general?

Negative Creep wrote:
Crimson and Floyd would be the ONLY bands that could challenge Yes for the title of "Greatest prog rock band". Imo.


People need to stop forgetting that Genesis were a Prog band.

Quote:
I'm not sure about qualifying Roxy Music as prog, even though they definitely have connections to the genre (Ferry auditioning for King Crimson, Manzanera playing for Canterbury band The Quiet Sun, Jobson playing with Curved Air, Jethro Tull and UK, Eno's early albums featuring many prog musicians, etc) they're hardly seen as a prog band, they're strongly identified as glam rock and art rock, which are seen as the "cool" alternatives to prog rock. If you include them then why not David Bowie or Kate Bush?

Don't really think Gabriel belongs here either.


A lot of the acts in the previous list won't be making it into my revised list. Roxy Music, Traffic, The Dixie Dregs etc won't appear.

The top 25 so far:

1. King Crimson
2. Yes
3. Genesis
4. Pink Floyd
5. Rush
6. ELP
7. Soft Machine
8. Frank Zappa/Mothers of Invention
9. Jethro Tull
10. Marillion
11. Dream Theater
12. Van Der Graaf Generator
13. Premiata Forneria Marconi
14. Camel
15. Mike Oldfield
16. Gentle Giant
17. Magma
18. Focus
19. Caravan
20. The Moody Blues
21. Can
22. Gong
23. Tangerine Dream
24. Henry Cow
25. Kraftwerk

Any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Is there an explanation for ELP < Rush?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Forgotten Son wrote:
Rock N Herbs wrote:
Pink Floyd's music can't really be matched to a genre. It's the kind of art no other artists compose. Prog is close to what Pink Floyd's music is which is why they are considered prog. Early in their career they were even Psychedelic.


Yes yes, you really like Pink Floyd. We get it. Your argument here is asinine. What does "Prog is close to what Pink Floyd's music is" even mean? How is them being Psychedelic got to do with their greatness as a Progressive Rock band, or a band in general?

Negative Creep wrote:
Crimson and Floyd would be the ONLY bands that could challenge Yes for the title of "Greatest prog rock band". Imo.


People need to stop forgetting that Genesis were a Prog band.

Quote:
I'm not sure about qualifying Roxy Music as prog, even though they definitely have connections to the genre (Ferry auditioning for King Crimson, Manzanera playing for Canterbury band The Quiet Sun, Jobson playing with Curved Air, Jethro Tull and UK, Eno's early albums featuring many prog musicians, etc) they're hardly seen as a prog band, they're strongly identified as glam rock and art rock, which are seen as the "cool" alternatives to prog rock. If you include them then why not David Bowie or Kate Bush?

Don't really think Gabriel belongs here either.


A lot of the acts in the previous list won't be making it into my revised list. Roxy Music, Traffic, The Dixie Dregs etc won't appear.

The top 25 so far:

1. King Crimson
2. Yes
3. Genesis
4. Pink Floyd
5. Rush
6. ELP
7. Soft Machine
8. Frank Zappa/Mothers of Invention
9. Jethro Tull
10. Marillion
11. Dream Theater
12. Van Der Graaf Generator
13. Premiata Forneria Marconi
14. Camel
15. Mike Oldfield
16. Gentle Giant
17. Magma
18. Focus
19. Caravan
20. The Moody Blues
21. Can
22. Gong
23. Tangerine Dream
24. Henry Cow
25. Kraftwerk

Any suggestions?

I'd say Floyd > Genesis.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Plants Strider wrote:
I'd say Floyd > Genesis.


You must be smoking something stronger than what I got. There is no way that Pink Floyd beats Genesis on a PROG list.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:07 am 
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85% of Floyd's stuff is progressive.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:11 pm 
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Plants Strider wrote:
85% of Floyd's stuff is progressive.


They released 14 albums. 8 of them were prog albums. That's about 57%. FAR from what your guess was.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Genesis released 15 studio albums. 11 of them are prog albums which is 73% so you're wrong. Genesis has more prog work than Pink Floyd.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Are you guys serious? You actually think musical genres are objective enough to base precise percentage points on? :lol:

My take is that Floyd didn't really become a prog band until Atom Heart Mother, before that they were a psychedelic band. The Wall and The Final Cut have more in common with art rock (stuff like Roxy Music and Lou Reed's Berlin) than they do with prog rock. AMLOR is barely prog. The Division Bell is pretty prog in a retro way.

Genesis's first album was a blatant cash in on the baroque pop craze. For me Genesis's prog era begins with Trespass and ends with Wind & Wuthering. ATTWT and Duke are transition albums with a hefty mix of prog and pop. Abacab, Genesis and Invisible Touch are pop albums with just a little prog thrown in. Their last two albums are straight up middle of the road adult contemporary crap.

So both bands are about 70-60% prog and have about 7 prog albums out of 14/15 albums each by my estimation. But it doesn't matter. Quality is what matters, not quantity.


Last edited by boo boo on Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:59 pm 
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boo boo wrote:
Are you guys serious? You actually think musical genres are objective enough to base precise percentage points on? :lol:

My take is that Floyd didn't really become a prog band until Atom Heart Mother, before that they were a psychedelic band. The Wall and Final Cut have more in common with art rock (stuff like Roxy Music and Lou Reed's Berlin) than they do with prog rock. AMLOR is barely prog. The Division Bell is pretty prog in a retro way.

For me Genesis's pure prog era begins with Trespass and ends with Wind & Wuthering. ATTWT and Duke are transition albums with a hefty mix of prog and pop. Abacab, Genesis and Invisible Touch are pop albums with just a little prog thrown in. Their last two albums are straight up middle of the road adult contemporary crap.

So both bands are about 70-60% prog. But it doesn't matter. Quality is what matters, not quantity.


I know that. I'm just trying to prove him wrong because he said 85% of Pink Floyd's work was prog. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Percentage doesn't matter.

Pink Floyd vs. Genesis:

Influence: Pink Floyd
Popularity: Pink Floyd. An absolute destruction.
Cultural Impact: Pink Floyd. What cultural impact does Genesis have?
Musical Impact: Pink Floyd. Floyd is one of the most acclaimed music artists.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Progressive Rock Artists
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Plants Strider wrote:
Percentage doesn't matter.

Pink Floyd vs. Genesis:

Influence: Pink Floyd
Popularity: Pink Floyd. An absolute destruction.
Cultural Impact: Pink Floyd. What cultural impact does Genesis have?
Musical Impact: Pink Floyd. Floyd is one of the most acclaimed music artists.


Pink Floyd's influence is mainly on rock in general, not in the world of prog.

Popularity goes to Floyd by an inch because Genesis sold plenty of prog records too.

Genesis clearly have a bigger cultural impact than Floyd around the area of prog. They were easily one of the first pioneers of symphonic prog.

Musical Impact is not acclaim. That's commercial impact. I wouldn't know how to decide musical impact on a prog list.


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